QF Chiefs v Blues
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I think you are missing the point. It’s not that the lineout was a bad option. They are choosing between two positive options
The state of the lineout and the way game was going shifts the calculus a little
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@Duluth I agree that their lineout wasn't functioning especially well and so that shifts the dial, but I don't think it should have shifted it so much as to opt for the kick at goal.
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Just read some of this thread. Lots of harsh posts. I am ok Chiefs lost, to have Brumbies next week, while Blues and Crusaders beat each other up.
Was really bothered by all the Chiefs injuries, which I felt decided the match. Jacobson was badly missed. Finau was huge until last few minutes, and awesome try saving tackle. But he could not be replaced when he was gassed, as Chiefs had already lost 3 second rowers to injury.
I fully support the penalty kick attempt. Could have closed the game out and gave the Chiefs forwards a wee rest.
I thought Chiefs had their 9s wrong way around as Cortez was too tight and predictable. Saw blues leave gaps wide and he went the other way. His kicking a bit off too. I am sure it was planned tactics though... before the loosie injuries. But geez Dmac was wasted by those tight tactics.
Heal well Luke Josh Simon Quinn and Anton. We need you guys around to play our best rugby. -
@KiwiMurph said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
I thought it was interesting when Beauden was interviewed post game the first person he mentioned when asked about his kick strategy was Vern Cotter - really crediting him
Was there something particularly good or new about Beauden's kicking strategy that I missed? Obviously 2 x great chips for himself, but an overall strategy? Kicking the ball away under advantage is a strategy of sorts I guess, but not a good one. I didn't see anything new, (though the chips were much better placed than usual).
@reprobate said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@KiwiMurph said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
I thought it was interesting when Beauden was interviewed post game the first person he mentioned when asked about his kick strategy was Vern Cotter - really crediting him
Was there something particularly good or new about Beauden's kicking strategy that I missed? Obviously 2 x great chips for himself, but an overall strategy? Kicking the ball away under advantage is a strategy of sorts I guess, but not a good one. I didn't see anything new, (though the chips were much better placed than usual).
I thought he seemed less frantic / rushed when making those kicks. Maybe it was something minor that helped.
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@Chris-B said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
If it's only 50-50, I reckon you're better off kicking for the corner, expecting you'll either be able to score a try or get a better penalty shot at goal - and winding more time off the clock with the Blues pinned
Yes, if they had a functioning lineout
@Duluth said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Chris-B said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
If it's only 50-50, I reckon you're better off kicking for the corner, expecting you'll either be able to score a try or get a better penalty shot at goal - and winding more time off the clock with the Blues pinned
Yes, if they had a functioning lineout
Yeah people forget that the Chiefs lineout was a mess.
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@reprobate said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@KiwiMurph said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
I thought it was interesting when Beauden was interviewed post game the first person he mentioned when asked about his kick strategy was Vern Cotter - really crediting him
Was there something particularly good or new about Beauden's kicking strategy that I missed? Obviously 2 x great chips for himself, but an overall strategy? Kicking the ball away under advantage is a strategy of sorts I guess, but not a good one. I didn't see anything new, (though the chips were much better placed than usual).
I thought he seemed less frantic / rushed when making those kicks. Maybe it was something minor that helped.
@ACT-Crusader said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@reprobate said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@KiwiMurph said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
I thought it was interesting when Beauden was interviewed post game the first person he mentioned when asked about his kick strategy was Vern Cotter - really crediting him
Was there something particularly good or new about Beauden's kicking strategy that I missed? Obviously 2 x great chips for himself, but an overall strategy? Kicking the ball away under advantage is a strategy of sorts I guess, but not a good one. I didn't see anything new, (though the chips were much better placed than usual).
I thought he seemed less frantic / rushed when making those kicks. Maybe it was something minor that helped.
Yeah i dunno man. I mean, the 2 chips were really very well placed. But he's been trying those all his life and sometimes he nails them, mostly he doesn't - I don't think he's magically turned some corner at this stage of his career because of something his coach said - will be stoked if he has though, they were bloody good. His kick-off combination with Clarke is really good too, but again nothing new.
Other than that, I saw a guy who kicked the ball away a lot, and put nobody into a gap all day - and to me that's a waste of AJ Lam, Ioane, Clarke and Telea outside him (and the Chiefs having a rookie at 12 and picking big loosies). The Chiefs absolutely dominated territory and possession first half, and through their own errors and excellent Blues defence they didn't get points - it wasn't some great display of territorial kicking which kept them out.
To me BB remains a very gifted guy who just isn't much chop at 10. McKenzie was quiet, which looked to me like the result of a flawed game plan and also a new 12 outside him. But he still actually put someone in a hole to score a try. -
@Duluth said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Chris-B said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
If it's only 50-50, I reckon you're better off kicking for the corner, expecting you'll either be able to score a try or get a better penalty shot at goal - and winding more time off the clock with the Blues pinned
Yes, if they had a functioning lineout
Yeah people forget that the Chiefs lineout was a mess.
@African-Monkey said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Duluth said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Chris-B said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
If it's only 50-50, I reckon you're better off kicking for the corner, expecting you'll either be able to score a try or get a better penalty shot at goal - and winding more time off the clock with the Blues pinned
Yes, if they had a functioning lineout
Yeah people forget that the Chiefs lineout was a mess.
That's not true.
Even taking that into account (running at about 70% which is terrible), we should have gone for the corner. The kick was a far lower percentage play than a line out, and we would have kept them deep in their half off set piece, at a minimum.
I'm prepared to die on this hill.
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@African-Monkey said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Duluth said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Chris-B said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
If it's only 50-50, I reckon you're better off kicking for the corner, expecting you'll either be able to score a try or get a better penalty shot at goal - and winding more time off the clock with the Blues pinned
Yes, if they had a functioning lineout
Yeah people forget that the Chiefs lineout was a mess.
That's not true.
Even taking that into account (running at about 70% which is terrible), we should have gone for the corner. The kick was a far lower percentage play than a line out, and we would have kept them deep in their half off set piece, at a minimum.
I'm prepared to die on this hill.
@gt12 said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@African-Monkey said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Duluth said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Chris-B said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
If it's only 50-50, I reckon you're better off kicking for the corner, expecting you'll either be able to score a try or get a better penalty shot at goal - and winding more time off the clock with the Blues pinned
Yes, if they had a functioning lineout
Yeah people forget that the Chiefs lineout was a mess.
That's not true.
Even taking that into account (running at about 70% which is terrible), we should have gone for the corner. The kick was a far lower percentage play than a line out, and we would have kept them deep in their half off set piece, at a minimum.
I'm prepared to die on this hill.
Fair enough. I personally thought it was the right decision to go for 3 but I do see the other side of the argument to it.
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@Duluth said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Chris-B said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
If it's only 50-50, I reckon you're better off kicking for the corner, expecting you'll either be able to score a try or get a better penalty shot at goal - and winding more time off the clock with the Blues pinned
Yes, if they had a functioning lineout
Yeah people forget that the Chiefs lineout was a mess.
@African-Monkey said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Duluth said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Chris-B said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
If it's only 50-50, I reckon you're better off kicking for the corner, expecting you'll either be able to score a try or get a better penalty shot at goal - and winding more time off the clock with the Blues pinned
Yes, if they had a functioning lineout
Yeah people forget that the Chiefs lineout was a mess.
That's a worry given so many of their forwards are ABs or in the frame.
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@gt12 said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@African-Monkey said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Duluth said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Chris-B said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
If it's only 50-50, I reckon you're better off kicking for the corner, expecting you'll either be able to score a try or get a better penalty shot at goal - and winding more time off the clock with the Blues pinned
Yes, if they had a functioning lineout
Yeah people forget that the Chiefs lineout was a mess.
That's not true.
Even taking that into account (running at about 70% which is terrible), we should have gone for the corner. The kick was a far lower percentage play than a line out, and we would have kept them deep in their half off set piece, at a minimum.
I'm prepared to die on this hill.
Fair enough. I personally thought it was the right decision to go for 3 but I do see the other side of the argument to it.
Can't give you an upvote, but I can appreciate why it was considered the right idea.
From my feeling, we had had no ball and little territory and were exiting terribly (which is not like us at all this year).
It felt to me like we needed to go win the game.
Although I understand the idea to take the 3 across the game, I personally thought we should have gone for it more because every time it was telling the Blues that their defence was working.
We never broke them down and were always at risk of giving up points when they were in our half.
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@African-Monkey said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Duluth said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Chris-B said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
If it's only 50-50, I reckon you're better off kicking for the corner, expecting you'll either be able to score a try or get a better penalty shot at goal - and winding more time off the clock with the Blues pinned
Yes, if they had a functioning lineout
Yeah people forget that the Chiefs lineout was a mess.
That's a worry given so many of their forwards are ABs or in the frame.
@nostrildamus said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@African-Monkey said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Duluth said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@Chris-B said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
If it's only 50-50, I reckon you're better off kicking for the corner, expecting you'll either be able to score a try or get a better penalty shot at goal - and winding more time off the clock with the Blues pinned
Yes, if they had a functioning lineout
Yeah people forget that the Chiefs lineout was a mess.
That's a worry given so many of their forwards are ABs or in the frame.
Did you watch the game?
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No, and feel free to lambast me. Just going off what the previous poster said about lineouts. Are you saying their lineouts weren't a mess?
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No, and feel free to lambast me. Just going off what the previous poster said about lineouts. Are you saying their lineouts weren't a mess?
@nostrildamus said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
No, and feel free to lambast me. Just going off what the previous poster said about lineouts. Are you saying their lineouts weren't a mess?
Injuries all over the place fucked them up and we finished with a bunch of hybrids on the park and a midfielder packing the scrum at 6.
Lord lasted all of 5 minutes.
It was a fucking mess. -
@nostrildamus said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
No, and feel free to lambast me. Just going off what the previous poster said about lineouts. Are you saying their lineouts weren't a mess?
Injuries all over the place fucked them up and we finished with a bunch of hybrids on the park and a midfielder packing the scrum at 6.
Lord lasted all of 5 minutes.
It was a fucking mess.@gt12 said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
Injuries all over the place fucked them up and we finished with a bunch of hybrids on the park and a midfielder packing the scrum at 6.
Lord lasted all of 5 minutes.
It was a fucking mess.I haven't read the thread but this game showed how sorely missed Jacobson was. He is a quality defender and puts pressure on the opposition at the breakdown by winning turnovers. Just as importantly, it completely stuffed up the loose forward rotation when Parker limped off as Boshier had already been subbed. Normally, one of Parker or Finau would have been replaced by Sititi.
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@nostrildamus said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
No, and feel free to lambast me. Just going off what the previous poster said about lineouts. Are you saying their lineouts weren't a mess?
Injuries all over the place fucked them up and we finished with a bunch of hybrids on the park and a midfielder packing the scrum at 6.
Lord lasted all of 5 minutes.
It was a fucking mess.@gt12 said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@nostrildamus said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
No, and feel free to lambast me. Just going off what the previous poster said about lineouts. Are you saying their lineouts weren't a mess?
Injuries all over the place fucked them up and we finished with a bunch of hybrids on the park and a midfielder packing the scrum at 6.
Lord lasted all of 5 minutes.
It was a fucking mess.The lineout was a mess multiple times when Taukei'aho, Vaa'i, Ah Kuoi, Parker and Finau were all on the field together before the injuries.
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@nostrildamus said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
No, and feel free to lambast me. Just going off what the previous poster said about lineouts. Are you saying their lineouts weren't a mess?
Injuries all over the place fucked them up and we finished with a bunch of hybrids on the park and a midfielder packing the scrum at 6.
Lord lasted all of 5 minutes.
It was a fucking mess.@gt12 said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@nostrildamus said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
No, and feel free to lambast me. Just going off what the previous poster said about lineouts. Are you saying their lineouts weren't a mess?
Injuries all over the place fucked them up and we finished with a bunch of hybrids on the park and a midfielder packing the scrum at 6.
Lord lasted all of 5 minutes.
It was a fucking mess.I see, thank you.
I am concerned about the ABs lineout (and not against Chiefs per se) as I thought our lineout improved in the late Foster era then started struggling under Razor/Ryan (I thought we started well against the English but I may have the order of games wrong). And Super Rugby doesn't seem a very useful gauge of lineout skill for those of us (like me) who only have time to see a few games before we head back into the international season. -
@gt12 said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@nostrildamus said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
No, and feel free to lambast me. Just going off what the previous poster said about lineouts. Are you saying their lineouts weren't a mess?
Injuries all over the place fucked them up and we finished with a bunch of hybrids on the park and a midfielder packing the scrum at 6.
Lord lasted all of 5 minutes.
It was a fucking mess.The lineout was a mess multiple times when Taukei'aho, Vaa'i, Ah Kuoi, Parker and Finau were all on the field together before the injuries.
@brodean said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@gt12 said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
@nostrildamus said in QF Chiefs v Blues:
No, and feel free to lambast me. Just going off what the previous poster said about lineouts. Are you saying their lineouts weren't a mess?
Injuries all over the place fucked them up and we finished with a bunch of hybrids on the park and a midfielder packing the scrum at 6.
Lord lasted all of 5 minutes.
It was a fucking mess.The lineout was a mess multiple times when Taukei'aho, Vaa'i, Ah Kuoi, Parker and Finau were all on the field together before the injuries.
Can't argue with that, but that's the huge weakness of starting with two hybrids at lock. Especially against that Blues team who are excellent at contesting - both Pat T and McWHannel are great at it and McWhannel probably knows the Chiefs systems and calls too.
For us, when Vaii is paired alongside a real lineout operator, we do better. We missed Lord who hopefully could have come on and sorted things out a bit.
I'm also not convinced that we put out our best lifters (probably Norris?). Overall, the idea to finish strongly got well fucked up with the injury to Jacobson (reduced our starting strength) and Lord etc.
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The final sequence. Strong carries from Papalii and Sotutu in the lead up.
