All Blacks v Argentina I
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@Jet maybe not “bang the doors down”. But they’d make Ireland’s 23.
Beauden easily starts at 10 for them. Prendergast is crap.
@hikastags I don't even think Prendergast is the best Irish 10.
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@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Canes4life The one that's there now.
And "he improved a bit", even if it's accepted, isn't a compelling argument for handing a player the All Black 7 jersey.
The Argentinians are going to target our openside at the breakdown and tackle area big time on Saturday. I hope he's up to the task.
He'll be fine IMO. At least we'll know one way or another. He deserves his opportunity. Others that have been in the jersey over the last couple of seasons haven't taken their opportunities so no point continuing with players that have failed to deliver. I expect Kirifi to keep getting better and better the more he plays at this level, if he doesn't then I'm sure the coaches will find someone else.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
I expect Kirifi to keep getting better and better the more he plays at this level, if he doesn't then I'm sure the coaches will find someone else.
Unfortunately for Kirifi, I don't think he'll be given the opportunity. If all the loose forwards are fit, he's out of the 23.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
I expect Kirifi to keep getting better and better the more he plays at this level, if he doesn't then I'm sure the coaches will find someone else.
Unfortunately for Kirifi, I don't think he'll be given the opportunity. If all the loose forwards are fit, he's out of the 23.
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
I expect Kirifi to keep getting better and better the more he plays at this level, if he doesn't then I'm sure the coaches will find someone else.
Unfortunately for Kirifi, I don't think he'll be given the opportunity. If all the loose forwards are fit, he's out of the 23.
If we played two big fluffybunnies at 6 & 8 we could use him effectively IMO.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
I expect Kirifi to keep getting better and better the more he plays at this level, if he doesn't then I'm sure the coaches will find someone else.
Unfortunately for Kirifi, I don't think he'll be given the opportunity. If all the loose forwards are fit, he's out of the 23.
If we played two big fluffybunnies at 6 & 8 we could use him effectively IMO.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
I expect Kirifi to keep getting better and better the more he plays at this level, if he doesn't then I'm sure the coaches will find someone else.
Unfortunately for Kirifi, I don't think he'll be given the opportunity. If all the loose forwards are fit, he's out of the 23.
If we played two big fluffybunnies at 6 & 8 we could use him effectively IMO.
And drop Savea to the bench? I'm not against it but it won't happen.
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I pretty happy with team. Kirifi will be fine, he was bloody good in 3rd test against French, not a little better etc. His stats were off the charts, and alongside Holland was most effective forward on field at ruck time etc. I have no probs with ALB on bench either, we all like Jim the Dif, bur reaslistcally he was a little overwhelmed in French series, I not convinced he as good coming off bench as when he starts.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
I expect Kirifi to keep getting better and better the more he plays at this level, if he doesn't then I'm sure the coaches will find someone else.
Unfortunately for Kirifi, I don't think he'll be given the opportunity. If all the loose forwards are fit, he's out of the 23.
If we played two big fluffybunnies at 6 & 8 we could use him effectively IMO.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
I expect Kirifi to keep getting better and better the more he plays at this level, if he doesn't then I'm sure the coaches will find someone else.
Unfortunately for Kirifi, I don't think he'll be given the opportunity. If all the loose forwards are fit, he's out of the 23.
If we played two big fluffybunnies at 6 & 8 we could use him effectively IMO.
I think he is physical enough for an international 7 , his lack of size is more a height thing, he is built like a brick shithouse even if short, he doesn’t get monstered in contact ,sometimes his lower body height works to his advantage.
I agree , it’s about the collective balance , genuine ball winners in the air at 6 and 8 and it’s not an issue . -
I pretty happy with team. Kirifi will be fine, he was bloody good in 3rd test against French, not a little better etc. His stats were off the charts, and alongside Holland was most effective forward on field at ruck time etc. I have no probs with ALB on bench either, we all like Jim the Dif, bur reaslistcally he was a little overwhelmed in French series, I not convinced he as good coming off bench as when he starts.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
I pretty happy with team. Kirifi will be fine, he was bloody good in 3rd test against French, not a little better etc. His stats were off the charts, and alongside Holland was most effective forward on field at ruck time etc. I have no probs with ALB on bench either, we all like Jim the Dif, bur reaslistcally he was a little overwhelmed in French series, I not convinced he as good coming off bench as when he starts.
Kirifi struggled in the first quarter but grew into the game and had a good 2nd half.
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Overall this 23 is a bit meh. The tight five remains a strength.
Apart from Savea, JB and Jordan there are question marks over the rest of the players outside the tight five.
Vaai shows much promise at 6 and now we will seem tested against tougher opponents than France B/C.
Jury is still out over the rest apart from Reece who shouldn't be there.
BBs passing has improved but his kicking still runs hot and cold.
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Overall this 23 is a bit meh. The tight five remains a strength.
Apart from Savea, JB and Jordan there are question marks over the rest of the players outside the tight five.
Vaai shows much promise at 6 and now we will seem tested against tougher opponents than France B/C.
Jury is still out over the rest apart from Reece who shouldn't be there.
BBs passing has improved but his kicking still runs hot and cold.
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Overall this 23 is a bit meh. The tight five remains a strength. Apart from Savea, JB and Jordan there are question marks over the rest of the players outside the tight five.
Vaai shows much promise at 6 and now we will seem tested against tougher opponents than France B/C
I actually like that Robertson is giving players like Proctor, Vaa'i & Kirirfi plenty of opportunity. Taking a bit of a risk - which maybe should have done it last year - is positive.
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I pretty happy with team. Kirifi will be fine, he was bloody good in 3rd test against French, not a little better etc. His stats were off the charts, and alongside Holland was most effective forward on field at ruck time etc. I have no probs with ALB on bench either, we all like Jim the Dif, bur reaslistcally he was a little overwhelmed in French series, I not convinced he as good coming off bench as when he starts.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
I have no probs with ALB on bench either, we all like Jim the Dif, bur reaslistcally he was a little overwhelmed in French series, I not convinced he as good coming off bench as when he starts.
Interesting it took you 2 tests to come to this conclusion yet you are happy with ALB on the bench following many more average bench displays.
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@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Overall this 23 is a bit meh. The tight five remains a strength. Apart from Savea, JB and Jordan there are question marks over the rest of the players outside the tight five.
Vaai shows much promise at 6 and now we will seem tested against tougher opponents than France B/C
I actually like that Robertson is giving players like Proctor, Vaa'i & Kirirfi plenty of opportunity. Taking a bit of a risk - which maybe should have done it last year - is positive.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Overall this 23 is a bit meh. The tight five remains a strength. Apart from Savea, JB and Jordan there are question marks over the rest of the players outside the tight five.
Vaai shows much promise at 6 and now we will seem tested against tougher opponents than France B/C
I actually like that Robertson is giving players like Proctor, Vaa'i & Kirirfi plenty of opportunity. Taking a bit of a risk - which maybe should have done it last year - is positive.
Taking risks is appropriate when there are potential high rewards. I can see that with Vaa'i. Don't really see it with Kirifi or Proctor.
I'd rather see the risks taken with players like Love and Carter.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
I have no probs with ALB on bench either, we all like Jim the Dif, bur reaslistcally he was a little overwhelmed in French series, I not convinced he as good coming off bench as when he starts.
Interesting it took you 2 tests to come to this conclusion yet you are happy with ALB on the bench following many more average bench displays.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
I have no probs with ALB on bench either, we all like Jim the Dif, bur reaslistcally he was a little overwhelmed in French series, I not convinced he as good coming off bench as when he starts.
Interesting it took you 2 tests to come to this conclusion yet you are happy with ALB on the bench following many more average bench displays.
He's been anonymous starting.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Overall this 23 is a bit meh. The tight five remains a strength. Apart from Savea, JB and Jordan there are question marks over the rest of the players outside the tight five.
Vaai shows much promise at 6 and now we will seem tested against tougher opponents than France B/C
I actually like that Robertson is giving players like Proctor, Vaa'i & Kirirfi plenty of opportunity. Taking a bit of a risk - which maybe should have done it last year - is positive.
Taking risks is appropriate when there are potential high rewards. I can see that with Vaa'i. Don't really see it with Kirifi or Proctor.
I'd rather see the risks taken with players like Love and Carter.
@brodean And that for me is the key issue.
Robertson was an outstanding coach at provincial and Super Rugby level where he was able to build a squad of fierce battlers around his big personality.
I am not sure he has successfully transitioned yet to international coaching where the risks and rewards are much bigger.
Potentially world class players are being overlooked for solid, but unexciting and unexceptional, battlers.
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@Jet well yes considering half the players you named are washed.
They’d absolutely bang the doors down for the likes of Savea, Sititi, Jordie, Jordan.
@hikastags said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Jet well yes considering half the players you named are washed.
They’d absolutely bang the doors down for the likes of Savea, Sititi, Jordie, Jordan.
Funnily enough none of those names were mentioned in the original opinion
Well done
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This team is so underwhelming, at least on paper as the game has not been played yet. The return of Williams and Sititi should add more muscle up front when they are available but I don't see too many adjustments in the backline which would make it less meh as Love did not get enough minutes to show what he is capable of, while Carter is totally untried at this level. Roigard will be welcome when he is back as Ratima and Christie would not even be considered for selection if they were Australian or South African players.
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I desperately hope I'm wrong, but this game has banana skin written all over it.
Argentina by 3-5.
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
I desperately hope I'm wrong, but this game has banana skin written all over it.
Argentina by 3-5.
Can't see it meself.
We lose when we don't take them seriously. Am expecting that we're taking them seriously.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Overall this 23 is a bit meh. The tight five remains a strength. Apart from Savea, JB and Jordan there are question marks over the rest of the players outside the tight five.
Vaai shows much promise at 6 and now we will seem tested against tougher opponents than France B/C
I actually like that Robertson is giving players like Proctor, Vaa'i & Kirirfi plenty of opportunity. Taking a bit of a risk - which maybe should have done it last year - is positive.
Taking risks is appropriate when there are potential high rewards. I can see that with Vaa'i. Don't really see it with Kirifi or Proctor.
I'd rather see the risks taken with players like Love and Carter.
@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
I'd rather see the risks taken with players like Love and Carter.
The issue is how many Tests would you give Love and Carter before the same is said of them?
I see sense in what he's doing for this Test - two new-ish players feeling more settled being given the chance to kick on.
