All Blacks v Argentina II

His Bobness

Razor’s Ledge

Scott Robertson, lauded as the likely saviour of a wilting All Black brand, is now himself staring over a precipice, one pointing to not only the ABs’ first loss at Eden Park in more than three decades but its surrender of the Bledisloe Cup after 22 years.

After the ABs’ now typically nervy, formless and gormless performance in their 29-23 loss to the Pumas in Buenos Aires, questions will surely be asked about the calibre of Robertson’s leadership and the credentials of his coaching staff, beyond Jason Ryan.

Typically in rugby forums after AB losses, there is debate over whether this player or that should have been selected. And there is certainly a case that the man they call Razor has been too shy of wielding a sharp instrument of his own.

But it is hard now to dismiss the conclusion that the disjointed funk the All Blacks are in has more to do with the coaching and game-plan than to individual players themselves. The clunkiness of the backline play, the incompetence under the high ball, the passivity of the defence and, most of all, the chronic ill-discipline (leading to THREE yellow cards in this test) points to something fundamentally wrong in the coaching.

The contrast with the Wallabies’ gutsy, never-say-die performances against South Africa in Ellis Park and Capetown is striking. Joe Schmidt has put together a team that clearly has a strong sense of how it wants to play and he has designed a game plan around the opposition, not to match some mythical ‘this is our DNA’ brand marketing ideal. And the Wallabies, if anything, have been even more decimated by injuries than the All Blacks.

Schmidt has given young untried wingers like Jorgensen and Toole a chance. Robertson has stuck doggedly to Reece, who can be trusted on to deliver at least one brain explosion per game, and to Ioane, who now looks devoid of confidence after his disastrous shift back to left wing.

In fact, the entire backline, built around the well-past-his-best Beauden Barrett, still looks tentative, nervy and so afraid of making a mistake that it immediately falls into a hole of its own making. Out of ideas, it constantly kicks prized possession away with little intent. As a spectator, one is left wondering who is steering this ship. As it is, the team looks like a big black Mary Celeste, adrift and deserted.

There is a view, propounded by NZ Herald rugby writer Gregor Paul, that Razor has fallen victim to the Rugby NZ marketing machine, who want the All Blacks to match the Harlem Globetrotters brand image of frantic, fast rugby designed to keep the private equity owners happy and win over new global audiences. Certainly, if you read Ian Foster’s recent biography (ghost-written by Paul) this brand-marketing-tail-wagging-the-dog disease was creeping in when he was coach and was a big part of the white-anting against him that led to Razor’s early appointment - even before the 2023 World Cup had been played. And it was Foster’s treatment that played a part in Joe Schmidt taking up his appointment with the Wallabies.

But internal politics aside, it also may come down to the fact that Razor and, particularly, his assistants Jason Holland and Scott Hansen are just not very good – strategically inept, bad at communication and man management, lacking innovation, poor selectors and, most of all, so worried about losing that they are not installing a winning ethos or chancing their arm on a new generation of players.

As a result, the team look defeated in spirit, out of confidence and now standing on a narrow ledge over a very deep chasm, with Razor himself out the front.

Jet

Julian Savea had 54 caps.

Rieko has 83.

ALB is on 86.

Another season and these two jokers are centurions.

This is the rot im talking about.

mencey

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Forwards are fine, 3 blokes in the backs need to retire.
Captaincy change is essential.
SB is a fine lock.

Well said. That was embarrassing to. watch.

Chris

@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

All these suggested changes are a bit late - lol

never too later the alternative carry on regardless makes no sense that for the same results.
Have to be brave somewhere next year it is too late.

KiwiMurph

@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Julian Savea had 54 caps.

Rieko has 83.

ALB is on 86.

Another season and these two jokers are centurions.

This is the rot im talking about.

And the irony is it was Rieko who replaced Savea.

Jet

Even the games we win are not convincing.

We go life and death with everyone.

Chris

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Forwards are fine, 3 blokes in the backs need to retire.
Captaincy change is essential.
SB is a fine lock.

So you are going to drop your most potent attacking weapon in Jordan stupid.
The back 3 did have bad games some of that comes from idiots in front of them not controlling the game.

Jet

Would Love Carter and Preston have done any worse?

We need line breaks. We need to get the opposition back pedalling.

Frank

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

All these suggested changes are a bit late - lol

never too later the alternative carry on regardless makes no sense that for the same results.
Have to be brave somewhere next year it is too late.

For sure, my point being Razor's conservatism got us into this predicament in the first place.

The lack of courage not to play Carter or Preston being two examples.

Chris

@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

All these suggested changes are a bit late - lol

never too later the alternative carry on regardless makes no sense that for the same results.
Have to be brave somewhere next year it is too late.

For sure, my point being Razor's conservatism got us into this predicament in the first place.

The lack of courage not to play Carter or Preston being two examples.

NO argument it is frustrating me as well,Hansen has a love affair with BB ,Jordie and Reiko so they will not get dropped.

KiwiMurph

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

All these suggested changes are a bit late - lol

never too later the alternative carry on regardless makes no sense that for the same results.
Have to be brave somewhere next year it is too late.

For sure, my point being Razor's conservatism got us into this predicament in the first place.

The lack of courage not to play Carter or Preston being two examples.

NO argument it is frustrating me as well,Hanson has a love affair with BB ,Jordie and Reiko so they will not get dropped.

Then drop Hansen as coach

MN5

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Julian Savea had 54 caps.

Rieko has 83.

ALB is on 86.

Another season and these two jokers are centurions.

This is the rot im talking about.

And the irony is it was Rieko who replaced Savea.

At least Reiko WAS great.

No disrespect but a guy like ALB should be no where near 50 let alone 100 caps.

Chris

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

All these suggested changes are a bit late - lol

never too later the alternative carry on regardless makes no sense that for the same results.
Have to be brave somewhere next year it is too late.

For sure, my point being Razor's conservatism got us into this predicament in the first place.

The lack of courage not to play Carter or Preston being two examples.

NO argument it is frustrating me as well,Hanson has a love affair with BB ,Jordie and Reiko so they will not get dropped.

Then drop Hansen as coach

I can't can I ?

Unite

@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@kidcalder said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Bring in Schmitt after RC he is available then.

Read Foster's book and you'll begin to understand why Schmidt wanted nothing to do with the AB's after RWC2023

Please summarize why.

NZR and the Commercial arm of the All Blacks are a shit show currently, pretty much

BerniesCorner

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Forwards are fine, 3 blokes in the backs need to retire.
Captaincy change is essential.
SB is a fine lock.

So you are going to drop your most potent attacking weapon in Jordan stupid.
The back 3 did have bad games some of that comes from idiots in front of them not controlling the game.

Please read that again

KiwiMurph

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

All these suggested changes are a bit late - lol

never too later the alternative carry on regardless makes no sense that for the same results.
Have to be brave somewhere next year it is too late.

For sure, my point being Razor's conservatism got us into this predicament in the first place.

The lack of courage not to play Carter or Preston being two examples.

NO argument it is frustrating me as well,Hanson has a love affair with BB ,Jordie and Reiko so they will not get dropped.

Then drop Hansen as coach

I can't can I ?

Sure you can Razor

Chris

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

All these suggested changes are a bit late - lol

never too later the alternative carry on regardless makes no sense that for the same results.
Have to be brave somewhere next year it is too late.

For sure, my point being Razor's conservatism got us into this predicament in the first place.

The lack of courage not to play Carter or Preston being two examples.

NO argument it is frustrating me as well,Hanson has a love affair with BB ,Jordie and Reiko so they will not get dropped.

Then drop Hansen as coach

I can't can I ?

Sure you can Razor

if only

Chris

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Forwards are fine, 3 blokes in the backs need to retire.
Captaincy change is essential.
SB is a fine lock.

So you are going to drop your most potent attacking weapon in Jordan stupid.
The back 3 did have bad games some of that comes from idiots in front of them not controlling the game.

Please read that again

Sorry my misread .

Jet

@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

I had a lot of hope for Razor, but honestly we’re lacking the basic structure that someone like Schmidt brings. Our play may have been more conservative under someone like that, but we’d have better fundamentals. He’s blooded a few new players, but essentially playing the same team/plan as Foster. Very disappointed with the lack of progression. Some areas have gone backwards.

Its the shoulder shrugging and hand waving away after defeats thats get me.

There should be consequences.

Drop 6 or 7 of them if you have to.

Sack a coach.

Drop an F Bomb in a press conference.

It doesnt look like it hurts them like it hurts us (or at least it used to).

And we dont have any vultures in the media holding their feet to the fire.

Kirst and Beav?

Wilson Mils and Angus?

Bryn Hall and Parsons?

Do me a favour....all pally pally.

You get better opinions on our game from non NZ sources such as Keo and Zels on SA Rugby.

Even on here tonight.....people arent angry enough. It's becoming normal. Its fucking unacceptable.

His Bobness

@Jet Too many cheerleaders and former players in the NZ media and not enough actual journalists.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks v Argentina II