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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
Has he though ? stats do not tell you that .
It could be the opposition are using the channel Havilli defends in.why would they do that I wonder? < Thinks>.
Because they were worried about Ennor.
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
Those stats also show Ennor is the best defensive centre by a long way.I think he's a very good defender but its not really clear that he's the best. Both Ennor and ALB didn't make a lot of tackles over the season.
In terms of completed tackles per 80 minutes Ennor is ranked 18 out of 23.
Well of course that depends on the possession stats how many tackles per 80 min you can make.
And how the opposition uses possession.David Havili was doing all of Ennor's defensive work for him.
Tackles Per 80 Minutes
17.51 David Havili
7.49 Braydon EnnorArguing the relative defensive merits of two guys who are rightfully about a million miles away from the AB squad.......
5.05pm on Saturday can't come fast enough !
Then it will all start up again as some players will prove once again they should not be there.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris mate did you see LF defense stats etc in club rugby in France.. He was worst centre over the season in top 14, by quite a bit. The couple of games I saw him play, he made a few breaks and looked great on attack but abysmal on defense, in that he seemed to not even attempt tackles at time. Reckon JAS would have fun running in his channel
Suaali’i is very poor defensively and could have kittens trying to defend LF.
Procter adds nothing on attack or defence.Yep, but LF is poor on defense and so would be doing same surely. Games I saw him play weren't so much he couldn't tackle, but more he seemed not to attempt them at times. he may of been confused with defsive set up team used or something, and hope they working on it'
Let’s see how Procter handles Suaali’i it maybe carnage.
Maybe it was miss communication between LF and French speaking players around him with Toulon.Saying Proctor has nothing on attack or defence is garbage. We know what he’s capable of because we’ve seen it for so long. The game plan is garbage and it’s completely fucked his confidence. That’s on the coaches in my view.
Maybe let’s give Proctor some ball to play with, you know instead of kicking the ball away at 9/10 or crashing the ball up at 12 in almost every play that we do. I’d like the ABs to play with width, they looked so good when they did that in the first 15 mins or so of the last test.
In the first 15 mins Proctor had three solid touches, one underneath his own sticks to put Carter away when Beauden decided to run it. He’s certainly capable, everyone just needs to do their fking job to a high standard, instead of looking like a bunch of clowns who don’t know what the game plan is.
We give him the ball and gives away points through and intercept.
That’s happened to the best players over the years. He needs more ball with more time but he’ll never get it because we have a cart horse 10 that offers nothing these days. Lester, Ennor etc would all struggle at 13 right now with the way our game plan is setup.
It’s a reflection of the coaches, Proctor has been one of the most consistent players over the last three years and then looks like a completely different player on the test stage. They haven’t exactly helped a young player get accustomed to one of the hardest positions in the game, because the game plan is geared towards our halves and our back three playing aerial ping pong.
We are all losing faith in Razor and his coaching staff and I hope he gets the boot if we lose the Bled. Deserves too IMO. He’s not ruthless enough to make the hard calls on underperforming senior players and his game plan up until now has been a disaster.
Let’s hope for everyone’s sake that we hit top gear on Saturday.
If we win it may just paper over the cracks .
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
Those stats also show Ennor is the best defensive centre by a long way.I think he's a very good defender but its not really clear that he's the best. Both Ennor and ALB didn't make a lot of tackles over the season.
In terms of completed tackles per 80 minutes Ennor is ranked 18 out of 23.
Well of course that depends on the possession stats how many tackles per 80 min you can make.
And how the opposition uses possession.David Havili was doing all of Ennor's defensive work for him.
Tackles Per 80 Minutes
17.51 David Havili
7.49 Braydon Ennor
Has he though ? stats do not tell you that .
It could be the opposition are using the channel Havilli defends in.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris mate did you see LF defense stats etc in club rugby in France.. He was worst centre over the season in top 14, by quite a bit. The couple of games I saw him play, he made a few breaks and looked great on attack but abysmal on defense, in that he seemed to not even attempt tackles at time. Reckon JAS would have fun running in his channel
Suaali’i is very poor defensively and could have kittens trying to defend LF.
Procter adds nothing on attack or defence.Yep, but LF is poor on defense and so would be doing same surely. Games I saw him play weren't so much he couldn't tackle, but more he seemed not to attempt them at times. he may of been confused with defsive set up team used or something, and hope they working on it'
Let’s see how Procter handles Suaali’i it maybe carnage.
Maybe it was miss communication between LF and French speaking players around him with Toulon.Saying Proctor has nothing on attack or defence is garbage. We know what he’s capable of because we’ve seen it for so long. The game plan is garbage and it’s completely fucked his confidence. That’s on the coaches in my view.
Maybe let’s give Proctor some ball to play with, you know instead of kicking the ball away at 9/10 or crashing the ball up at 12 in almost every play that we do. I’d like the ABs to play with width, they looked so good when they did that in the first 15 mins or so of the last test.
In the first 15 mins Proctor had three solid touches, one underneath his own sticks to put Carter away when Beauden decided to run it. He’s certainly capable, everyone just needs to do their fking job to a high standard, instead of looking like a bunch of clowns who don’t know what the game plan is.
We give him the ball and gives away points through and intercept.
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
Those stats also show Ennor is the best defensive centre by a long way.I think he's a very good defender but its not really clear that he's the best. Both Ennor and ALB didn't make a lot of tackles over the season.
In terms of completed tackles per 80 minutes Ennor is ranked 18 out of 23.
Well of course that depends on the possession stats how many tackles per 80 min you can make.
And how the opposition uses possession.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris mate did you see LF defense stats etc in club rugby in France.. He was worst centre over the season in top 14, by quite a bit. The couple of games I saw him play, he made a few breaks and looked great on attack but abysmal on defense, in that he seemed to not even attempt tackles at time. Reckon JAS would have fun running in his channel
Suaali’i is very poor defensively and could have kittens trying to defend LF.
Procter adds nothing on attack or defence.Yep, but LF is poor on defense and so would be doing same surely. Games I saw him play weren't so much he couldn't tackle, but more he seemed not to attempt them at times. he may of been confused with defsive set up team used or something, and hope they working on it'
Let’s see how Procter handles Suaali’i it maybe carnage.
Maybe it was miss communication between LF and French speaking players around him with Toulon.I hoped so , and I not saying Procyor great, all I saying LF was poor in France, I hope it was miscommunication, but at times he didn't even attempt tackles which what worried me , an awful lot.
That is fine mate I understand what you are saying
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@brodean Are those stats only for games when those guys played in the midfield - or are they season stats for guys who sometimes played in other positions?
Lams form has also fallen off a cliff in NPC he has been poor.
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
Same old shit selections win this one then get smoked in Perth.
Pattern remains the same so no chance of progression.I probably missed any suggestion you made prior to (all the conjecture just became white noise). But what would be your changes?
I would be more radical
D Mac to first five,Love to the bench BB gone,
LF to centre someone who can bend the line.
Especiallyas Suaali’i is not a great defender.
Williams would start Norris on the bench another ball runner.
And play more direct with those changes.I'm with you at 10.
Not on the LF wagon (but not delighted with our options)
And Norris is injured.
Is he ? Bower was released last week and he was cover for Norris,Since Bower has not come back to the squad I though Norris was now fit,
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris mate did you see LF defense stats etc in club rugby in France.. He was worst centre over the season in top 14, by quite a bit. The couple of games I saw him play, he made a few breaks and looked great on attack but abysmal on defense, in that he seemed to not even attempt tackles at time. Reckon JAS would have fun running in his channel
Suaali’i is very poor defensively and could have kittens trying to defend LF.
Procter adds nothing on attack or defence.Yep, but LF is poor on defense and so would be doing same surely. Games I saw him play weren't so much he couldn't tackle, but more he seemed not to attempt them at times. he may of been confused with defsive set up team used or something, and hope they working on it'
Let’s see how Procter handles Suaali’i it maybe carnage.
Maybe it was miss communication between LF and French speaking players around him with Toulon.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris mate did you see LF defense stats etc in club rugby in France.. He was worst centre over the season in top 14, by quite a bit. The couple of games I saw him play, he made a few breaks and looked great on attack but abysmal on defense, in that he seemed to not even attempt tackles at time. Reckon JAS would have fun running in his channel
Suaali’i is very poor defensively and could have kittens trying to defend LF.
Procter adds nothing on attack or defence.
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@brodean well my eye test didnt see him anywhere near as effective as last year, guess I was wrong.
Midfield ( Leicesters stats from France are considered ). Stats of 23 midfielders this year.
Dominant Carry % (desc)
59.3 AJ Lam
56.8 Sam Gilbert
53.9 Tanielu Tele'a
53.3 Leicester Fainga'anuku
51.7 Bailyn Sullivan
48.0 Peter Umaga-JensenGainline %
80.0 AJ Lam
76.7 Xavi Taele
75.7 Riley Higgins
75.0 Julian Savea
67.8 Sam Gilbert
64.2 Quinn TupaeaCarries Committing 2+ Tacklers
82.1% Julian Savea
75.3% AJ Lam
71.6% Timoci Tavatavanawai
70.6% Levi Aumua
67.0% Quinn Tupaea
65.0% Leicester Fainga'anukuTackle Evasion %
43.2 Billy Proctor
37.7 Timoci Tavatavanawai
34.3 AJ Lam
32.2 Leicester Fainga'anuku
31.2 Peter Umaga-Jensen
30.5 David HaviliTackle Success
93.3% Anton Lienert-Brown
90.0% Braydon Ennor
88.7% Jordie Barrett
88.7% Xavi Taele
88.5% Quinn Tupaea
87.9% AJ LamDominant Tackle %
17.5 Braydon Ennor
14.9 Billy Proctor
9.5 AJ Lam
8.6 Gideon Wrampling
8.6 Lalomilo Lalomilo
8.3 Sam GilbertLam is the only midfielder featuring in all these stats near the top out of 23 players.
Those stats also show Ennor is the best defensive centre by a long way.
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
Same old shit selections win this one then get smoked in Perth.
Pattern remains the same so no chance of progression.I probably missed any suggestion you made prior to (all the conjecture just became white noise). But what would be your changes?
I would be more radical
D Mac to first five,Love to the bench BB gone,
LF to centre someone who can bend the line.
Especiallyas Suaali’i is not a great defender.
Williams would start Norris on the bench another ball runner.
And play more direct with those changes.
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
For me Quinn Tupaea is also lucky. He showed a lot of promise during Super Rugby but he was disappointing in this RC especially in the last game.
He was one of the players walking in the last 15 minutes.
With over 50 games in the MF for Ta$man and Toulon Leicester Fai'anganuku has played, he has enough experience in that position to be tried there for the ABs.
If the criteria is but not at international Level then no new players can ever gets selected for the ABs as they have never played there.
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe I:
@MN5 up vote for the Super Troopers reference.
Razor has been littering and, littering and, littering and……..smoking the reefer
The rule bending for a guy with SEVEN AB caps ( two of which are against powerhouses Namibia and Uruguay ) is cringeworthy.
And were any of those tests played in the midfield or were they all on the wing?
Without checking I’m 100% sure they were all on the wing. Excellent preparation for a future at 12 or 13 at test level.
A bit like the calls to play Love at First five with no games in that position at First five and only 6 at SR level.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
By the sound of the backline selection if its true,We are back to a complete disfuctioning backline who may well get taught a big lesson from the Aussie backline.
Back to? As if we ever left
What I said back to meaning, same as the last tests .
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
So BB who is a problem will never get moved from First Five.
Isn't this the biggest problem for the dysfunction of the backline? Jordie is a very limited 12 too as far as distribution goes.
Yes a massive problem it breaks down around BB mostly.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris At least Ioane can tackle. Proctor's defence has been sub-par.
Yeah but first he is not good enough for centre but he's a wing then he doesn't get selected.Now he is the best centre again
A complete mess confusion reigns.I think that was short-sighted. He clearly isn't a winger anymore. I think we all hoped Proctor would be an improvement, but he has failed to replicate the form he showed in Super Rugby having had a reasonable chance.
It has been far from smooth sailing inside him, but he hasn't shown an ounce of anything to suggest he is better than Rieko.
I think ideally you still want a better distributor at 13... would they be brave enough to consider Ennor for the end of year tour?
Maybe they would, Ennor is a good distributer,But it seems to me they are panicking and will stay with the as they see it, tried and true.
So BB who is a problem will never get moved from First Five.
This coming from a man who told us all Proctor was the greatest centre in the world and would fix all our troubles,Only to turn out he is sub standard at test level.
I think you're muddling up the Canes fans.
They are all the same to me.