The Silver Fern

@cgrant I don't see much point in Taylor starting this particular Test unless he was to be captain, Samisoni to play 60 minutes I would imagine

thought I would share this here, good on Fabian it's a deserved nomination, when he's not starting his presence is missed big time as seen in Wellington and England. As for us I do wonder if he'll Join Jim & Sean in our leadership group

@brodean there's kinda evidence at present time, Lio-Willie replaced Finau on tour yet why didn't Dalton Replace Jacobson?

@Bones I'm buying what you're selling bones Jordan could be our version of Huw Jones

@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:

Given Razor's first test was against England, you can make some reasonable comparisons. The 23s:
England in Dunedin 2024/England in London 2025

1. Ethan de Groot

2. Codie Taylor

3. Tyrel Lomax/Fletcher Newell

4. Scott Barrett

5. Patrick Tuipulotu/Josh Lord

6. Samipeni Finau/Simon Parker

7. Dalton Papalii/Ardie Savea

8. Ardie Savea/Peter Lakai

9. TJ Perenara/Cam Roigard

10. Damian McKenzie/Beauden Barrett

11. Mark Telea/Leicester Fainga'anuku

12. Jordie Barrett/Quinn Tupaea

13. Rieko Ioane/Billy Proctor

14. Sevu Reece/Leroy Carter

15. Stephen Perofeta/Will Jordan

16. Asafo Aumua/Samisoni Taukei'aho

17. Ofa Tu'ungafasi/Tamaiti Williams

18. Fletcher Newell/Pasilio Tosi

19. Tupou Vaa'i/Sam Darry

20. Luke Jacobson/Wallace Sititi

21. Finlay Christie/Cortez Ratima

22. Anton Lienert-Brown

23. Beauden Barrett/Damian McKenzie

Obviously injuries play a part, but I honestly think if anything sums up that things are going wrong, it is that 18 months down the line from Razor's first test, he still has Anton Lienert-Brown filling the 22 jersey.

Outside of that, despite the criticism, they have actually managed to blood a lot of players, even if it has been due to injuries, the issue is, a lot of them don't seem to be very good. The debutants in the Razor era:

Cortez Ratima - Could/should feasibly end up fifth in the pecking order by the next international window
Billy Proctor - Incredibly underwhelming given the hype
Noah Hotham - Jury massively still out
George Bell - Hardly used since
Wallace Sititi - Star burned early, but has not been great this year
Pasilio Tosi - Think he has been a success
Sam Darry - Rated as our sixth best lock
Harry Plummer - Gone
Peter Lakai - After a near flawless debut, hardly sighted until the EOYT this year
Ruben Love - LOL
Fabian Holland - Stevie Wonder could see his talent
Christian Lio-Willie - Solid v France then done away with
Du'Plessis Kirifi - Unlikely to be an All Black next year
Ollie Norris - Looks a prospect
Timoci Tavatavanawai - Given injury, tough to say how his season may have ended up, but the mafia chose ALB on the bench ahead of him in Argentina so...
Brodie McAllister - Barring an injury crisis won't play again for the All Blacks
Simon Parker - Has underwhelmed
Leroy Carter - Good solid start, but his long-term prospects don't appear strong

Overwhelmingly, this seems to be a case of quality, not quantity. There are several things here. Is this poor talent ID? Is this poor coaching? Is this poor gameplan?

Probably a combination? I could be wrong, but I don't imagine there is actually a heck of a lot of technical coaching occuring at the international level - I imagine that happens at club level before you actually reach the top level. The ABs not being able to pass under pressure is not the fault of the coaches from a coaching perspective, but more a selection perspective.
The question is whether the guys not selected are much better? Given we have cycled through so many players, the chance of say Ruben Love or Hoskins Sotutu coming in and shining in this environment feels extraordinarily slim, and I don't know enough to explain why. Is it a case of Super Rugby not preparing guys for test rugby or is this squarely on the coaches? As @Bones says, Proctor particularly just looked like an obvious upgrade to the regular punter.

I have no doubt the All Blacks will eventually get back to the top of the pile, because these things are cyclical, but I suspect there will be some really interesting takes of what is happening in NZR right now from many different people in ten years time, and given difference of opinion, we may never truly get an answer.

Love would've been better off playing 7 or 8 rounds of npc as Wellingtons 10 than his 20 minutes on the wing during the Rugby championship

@Kiwiwomble shouldn't be Reece, a coach with long term vision would make sure to blood in Tangitau or Nanai-Seturo in a week like this, heck I'm pretty sure Ben smith with only a handful of super games made his debut on a northern tour sigh I miss Ted

@canefan yes heads need to roll, we allowed England to score 33 points against us, we allowed the Springboks to score 43 against us the evidence is damning.. we used to be Respected.. now there's 20 yr olds such as Henry Pollock that see us as walkovers jesus christ it's all very rotten

@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:

I would love to see Etene Nanai Seturo and Caleb Tangitau on the flanks
ENS with his footwork and size would bring something completely different not to mention a tremendous left boot which is weapon and Tangitau with his speed would compliment a slick back 3 with Jordon
Leicester Fainga’nuku at 13 and Quinn Tupaea at 12 and Ruben Love at 10 ,Roigard at 9
That would be my dream backline ,Jordie Barrett ,D Mac and Dylan Pledger as reserve cover
I know Ruben Love’s selection at 10 would turn a few heads ,but imo i believe his future lies at 10

Innovative backline Steve I would love to see it

It's painfully obvious need to bring Jamie Joseph in and have him take Beauden & Scott out back like he did with stalwarts of the Landers Cowan, Mackintosh & Thomson back in the day don't we

What a shit show I've had enough Townsend must do what is right and step down, Brad Mooar or O'Gara in

@frugby no chance of a recall for two players loyal to nz rugby who are seemingly back in form in Folau Fakatava & Braydon Ennor?

Didn't bother with a punt on this game with it not being televised and of this weeks starting 15 Ratumaitavuki kneepkens gets the 1st Try goddammit Sky TV or Mark Robinson you have cost me $100

@frugby said in Wales Vs All Blacks:

Predicted Team

1. Williams
2. Taukei'aho
3. Mafileo
4. Barrett
5. Holland
6. Sititi
7. Kirifi
8. Savea
9. Ratima
10. McKenzie
11. Clarke
12. ALB
13. Ioane
14. Reece
15. Jordan
16. Bell
17. Bower
18. Tosi
19. Lord
20. Parker
21. Christie
22. Love
23. Fainga'anuku

This starting backline makes me think we're playing the 3rd vs 4th bronze match of a world cup or something lol can beauden get a send off too actually no don't take me seriously with that suggestion

@Crazy-Horse horse do you know what make me envious? their 3rd playmaking option Fin Smith missed out on selection this week however that doesn't mean Borthwick will preclude him from future top level tests, on the flip side our equivalent Ruben Love has simply never been in consideration the past 3 weeks now has he.

Yeah Billy Proctor has sevu reece syndrome gets it done at super level, but when international teams see them in the All blacks lineup they're definitely relieved

@rewa267 yes we'll put 50 or more on poor wales, but doesn't change the fact we've arguably regressed?? I believe we defeated England 4 times last year and today we lost by 13+ to them... it makes me sick really

@hikastags we'll need Will Stodart to put his hand up in super won't we stags that much is obvious

This is Disgraceful