All Blacks v Argentina I
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B I'm not sure exactly what BB is giving the coaches that DMac wasn't. The last game he started we beat Ireland away,and he was close to man of the match wasn't he? Since then he's not played 10 at all that I can recall. So BB must be an amazing trainer....
I understand you and a few of us aren't sure what Beaudy is giving coaches that DMac isn't cane, but funnily enough most of BB criticisms come on forums.
Almost all pundits , ex coaches and test players seem to be saying he doing great job. We all I think see differences, I think it too easy to say he must be a great trainer, he obviously controls game how they want.
I also wonder if at the moment we going back to thought we have a bloody good forward pack and they want our 10 to keep ball in front of them? -
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@canefan it is an interesting concept really.
I know back in the Henry days, early Hansen days, when they got results, people pretty much trusted thier decisions, cos results.
Now, and going back to late Hansen, all of Fozzie, people see these decisions and are questioning them , cos results.
It is interesting how others see the likes of Ardie and BB alot different to how many, particularly on here do, clearly there is something we are missing.
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@Dan54 how do they justify the 10 giving away possession through ineffective kicking
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@BerniesCorner It's not part of the Instagram posts, which is what most people seem to be watching.
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The French 10 praised BB. I imagine coaches and opposition see unpredictability while some of us on here see hospital passes and shitty kicking. Or at least, pebbles and rhinestones.
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The criticism of BB here is both valid and a bit over the top. A lot of the criticism centres around the chip kicks, but as I've said a few times on here, that's a team wide gameplan. Beauden does it most as he's at 10, but DMac does it, Jordan did it last weekend, many others have as well. It's 100% gameplan to keep the rush defense guessing. Not sure I agree with it, but it's not a Beauden problem.
The main issue I see with him is the distance on his clearances, but the coaches obviously see his upsides as outweighing that negative. If we have Roigard starting at 9 then that negates that issue somewhat.
Because outside of the kicking from hand, Beauden has been fucking excellent overall and created a lot. People really overlook some of the outstanding work he does to create tries, and focus on a chip kick gone wrong instead.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
The French 10 praised BB. I imagine coaches and opposition see unpredictability while some of us on here see hospital passes and shitty kicking. Or at least, pebbles and rhinestones.
Much of it is so unpredictable that no one except the kicker seems to be aware the kick is coming. And the chance of recovery drops because the chase is either poor or non existent
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
The criticism of BB here is both valid and a bit over the top. A lot of the criticism centres around the chip kicks, but as I've said a few times on here, that's a team wide gameplan. Beauden does it most as he's at 10, but DMac does it, Jordan did it last weekend, many others have as well. It's 100% gameplan to keep the rush defense guessing. Not sure I agree with it, but it's not a Beauden problem.
The main issue I see with him is the distance on his clearances, but the coaches obviously see his upsides as outweighing that negative. If we have Roigard starting at 9 then that negates that issue somewhat.
Because outside of the kicking from hand, Beauden has been fucking excellent overall and created a lot. People really overlook some of the outstanding work he does to create tries, and focus on a chip kick gone wrong instead.
The Pumas showed how it’s done.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Dan54 how do they justify the 10 giving away possession through ineffective kicking
I don't ask them, I don't even really have an opinion. All I was saying that it seems pundits and coaches seem to think he best option.
I just guessing they see something some of us don't. -
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
The criticism of BB here is both valid and a bit over the top. A lot of the criticism centres around the chip kicks, but as I've said a few times on here, that's a team wide gameplan. Beauden does it most as he's at 10, but DMac does it, Jordan did it last weekend, many others have as well. It's 100% gameplan to keep the rush defense guessing. Not sure I agree with it, but it's not a Beauden problem.
The main issue I see with him is the distance on his clearances, but the coaches obviously see his upsides as outweighing that negative. If we have Roigard starting at 9 then that negates that issue somewhat.
Because outside of the kicking from hand, Beauden has been fucking excellent overall and created a lot. People really overlook some of the outstanding work he does to create tries, and focus on a chip kick gone wrong instead.
Unfortuantly NQ, when a lot make a decision on how they feel about a player, they see exactly what suits their prejudice or whatever it is. If a player who they against does 14 good things in game and four bad , the 4 bad is what is pounced on.
This is not just a BB thing or this site, but I have seen on most sites , poster will remember a cock up or bad game a player (or refs etc) had quite sometime ago to boldter argument. I think it human nature? -
i would put a lot more stock in what the ex-player talking heads said if they just once had the nuts to call out an established player. Never fucking happens.
Newbie? Then it's a fucking free-for-all, but the established guys get a free ride from the media.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
i would put a lot more stock in what the ex-player talking heads said if they just once had the nuts to call out an established player. Never fucking happens.
Newbie? Then it's a fucking free-for-all, but the established guys get a free ride from the media.
I was about to say much the same. Ex-players don't want to criticise current players and a lot of the media seem like they'd just love to be mates with the players so spend most of their time acting like absolute sycophants towards them.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
i would put a lot more stock in what the ex-player talking heads said if they just once had the nuts to call out an established player. Never fucking happens.
Newbie? Then it's a fucking free-for-all, but the established guys get a free ride from the media.
I was about to say much the same. Ex-players don't want to criticise current players and a lot of the media seem like they'd just love to be mates with the players so spend most of their time acting like absolute sycophants towards them.
For sure up to a point, also they actually write under their own names, so have to stand by what they say. Look at Campese for instance, ex player who rips into everyone etc, and now saying he obviously got it wrong and may have to stop commenting on Aus rugby. So loss of income etc, on a forum we all just do it under non de plumes etc, and so few read it, we can't do any damage to anyone .
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
i would put a lot more stock in what the ex-player talking heads said if they just once had the nuts to call out an established player. Never fucking happens.
Newbie? Then it's a fucking free-for-all, but the established guys get a free ride from the media.
I was about to say much the same. Ex-players don't want to criticise current players and a lot of the media seem like they'd just love to be mates with the players so spend most of their time acting like absolute sycophants towards them.
For sure up to a point, also they actually write under their own names, so have to stand by what they say. Look at Campese for instance, ex player who rips into everyone etc, and now saying he obviously got it wrong and may have to stop commenting on Aus rugby. So loss of income etc, on a forum we all just do it under non de plumes etc, and so few read it, we can't do any damage to anyone .
Campo isn't a great example, the man can't resist putting his foot in his mouth
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
i would put a lot more stock in what the ex-player talking heads said if they just once had the nuts to call out an established player. Never fucking happens.
Newbie? Then it's a fucking free-for-all, but the established guys get a free ride from the media.
I was about to say much the same. Ex-players don't want to criticise current players and a lot of the media seem like they'd just love to be mates with the players so spend most of their time acting like absolute sycophants towards them.
For sure up to a point, also they actually write under their own names, so have to stand by what they say. Look at Campese for instance, ex player who rips into everyone etc, and now saying he obviously got it wrong and may have to stop commenting on Aus rugby. So loss of income etc, on a forum we all just do it under non de plumes etc, and so few read it, we can't do any damage to anyone .
Campo isn't a great example, the man can't resist putting his foot in his mouth
Yep I know that, but you get my point. Anyone we don't agree with in media, we tend to think is an idiot, so it's a lose lose really isn't it.
Also remember a few years back when Rod Kafer was putting boot into AB players? He turned up at test match, the AB coaching staff ignored him and he wouldn't do any interviews with him? So stuffed up his job.
As I say we can rubbish anyone with very little knowledge with no comebacks , and none taking any notice, they can't.
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@Dan54 Dan, you're making my point for me. We can't on one hand say that the talking heads have to report a certain way to keep their jobs, and then be expected to rely on what they say as "expert analysis".
It's head office PR
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
i would put a lot more stock in what the ex-player talking heads said if they just once had the nuts to call out an established player. Never fucking happens.
Newbie? Then it's a fucking free-for-all, but the established guys get a free ride from the media.
I was about to say much the same. Ex-players don't want to criticise current players and a lot of the media seem like they'd just love to be mates with the players so spend most of their time acting like absolute sycophants towards them.
For sure up to a point, also they actually write under their own names, so have to stand by what they say. Look at Campese for instance, ex player who rips into everyone etc, and now saying he obviously got it wrong and may have to stop commenting on Aus rugby. So loss of income etc, on a forum we all just do it under non de plumes etc, and so few read it, we can't do any damage to anyone .
Campo isn't a great example, the man can't resist putting his foot in his mouth
He's mastered the internal swallow-your-own goose step!
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
i would put a lot more stock in what the ex-player talking heads said if they just once had the nuts to call out an established player. Never fucking happens.
Newbie? Then it's a fucking free-for-all, but the established guys get a free ride from the media.
I was about to say much the same. Ex-players don't want to criticise current players and a lot of the media seem like they'd just love to be mates with the players so spend most of their time acting like absolute sycophants towards them.
For sure up to a point, also they actually write under their own names, so have to stand by what they say. Look at Campese for instance, ex player who rips into everyone etc, and now saying he obviously got it wrong and may have to stop commenting on Aus rugby. So loss of income etc, on a forum we all just do it under non de plumes etc, and so few read it, we can't do any damage to anyone .
Yes but in Campo's case he was relying on his expert insight to get paid, and, well, his expertise looks a bit shaky now.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Dan54 Dan, you're making my point for me. We can't on one hand say that the talking heads have to report a certain way to keep their jobs, and then be expected to rely on what they say as "expert analysis".
It's head office PR
I never really take a lot of notice except find them good when discussing tactics etc. Mainly because they all been through it.
Matfield on podcast was obviously talking about Boks most, and said he thought Libbock etc stuffed up by not sticking to gameplan once they got ahead. So maybe that was fair enough, so I never need more than that anyway.
I not sure how that PR, saying he thought they needed Pollard etc to control game?
I agree with what you say in general, they can't say too much, and we can say what we like as we under non de plumes and noone remembers what we said 5 minutes after reading it.
I will add the only ones that matter are the coaches really isn't it?
