All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
It’s crap from Knowler.
Yeah I read that and thought it was a worse than sly attempt at character assassination. Might be true or false for all I know but felt like there was an agenda there.
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Reading through this thread now. Just a comment about Sititi and Lakai, and what is their best positions. When they played together in the 2022 NZ U20s Lakai was the no.8 and Sititi at 7 (Haig was the 6). Sititi's body shape has changed since then, so less suited to being an openside now. It would be good to have a 7 like McReight who constantly puts pressure on the opposition breakdown. Kirifi has found out that being able to do that at test level is much harder than in SR. Papalii isn't that great either, and more a cleaner on our ball than a disruptor.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@Bovidae Tavatavanawai into 7?
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@Bovidae Tavatavanawai into 7?
Well are there really any technical skills Ardie uses which Jim doesn't have? He's a stronger runner, a harder tackler, and as good on the turnover. No idea how he goes hitting rucks, but if that isn't part of the job description then I'd say all of the strengths you could argue he's better at...
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Reading through this thread now. Just a comment about Sititi and Lakai, and what is their best positions. When they played together in the 2022 NZ U20s Lakai was the no.8 and Sititi at 7 (Haig was the 6). Sititi's body shape has changed since then, so less suited to being an openside now. It would be good to have a 7 like McReight who constantly puts pressure on the opposition breakdown. Kirifi has found out that being able to do that at test level is much harder than in SR. Papalii isn't that great either, and more a cleaner on our ball than a disruptor.
Maintaining possession is more important than being disruptors. To be a prominent disruptor your team needs to be defending.
Ultimately there wasn't a high value in McReight putting pressure on the ball because they lost comfortably and they also lost more turnovers. Same with Savea and Kirifi for their respective teams in Super Rugby. They feature high as disruptors in SRP but their teams didn't make it to even the semi's.
The Highlanders have 3 disruptors in the top 10 for SRP and see how much good it did them.
Contrast the Crusaders who won - there wasn't a single Crusaders player in the top 10 disruptors this year.
Likewise for the RWC the Springboks do not rank high in this facet.
Club Rugby Stats Hub 2024-25 | Opta Analyst
Our Club Rugby Stats for the 2024-25 season includes individual player and team advanced stats broken down by category.
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@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Club Rugby Stats Hub 2024-25 | Opta Analyst
Our Club Rugby Stats for the 2024-25 season includes individual player and team advanced stats broken down by category.
As an aside, Cam Roigard looked good in those stats on a per minute basis!
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@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Contrast the Crusaders who won - there wasn't a single Crusaders player in the top 10 disruptors this year.
We did have two guys in Christie and CLW that played dual disruptor roles.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Contrast the Crusaders who won - there wasn't a single Crusaders player in the top 10 disruptors this year.
We did have two guys in Christie and CLW that played dual disruptor roles.
Statistically they didn't have the same impact compared to others.
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Given the fact that no Barrett can ever be dropped........yes.
Once Richie comes back, watch out Beauden!
Or more accurately, watch out DMac
Or watch out Love , they won’t need all 3 in the squad
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@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Reading through this thread now. Just a comment about Sititi and Lakai, and what is their best positions. When they played together in the 2022 NZ U20s Lakai was the no.8 and Sititi at 7 (Haig was the 6). Sititi's body shape has changed since then, so less suited to being an openside now. It would be good to have a 7 like McReight who constantly puts pressure on the opposition breakdown. Kirifi has found out that being able to do that at test level is much harder than in SR. Papalii isn't that great either, and more a cleaner on our ball than a disruptor.
Maintaining possession is more important than being disruptors. To be a prominent disruptor your team needs to be defending.
Ultimately there wasn't a high value in McReight putting pressure on the ball because they lost comfortably and they also lost more turnovers. Same with Savea and Kirifi for their respective teams in Super Rugby. They feature high as disruptors in SRP but their teams didn't make it to even the semi's.
The Highlanders have 3 disruptors in the top 10 for SRP and see how much good it did them.
Contrast the Crusaders who won - there wasn't a single Crusaders player in the top 10 disruptors this year.
Likewise for the RWC the Springboks do not rank high in this facet.
Club Rugby Stats Hub 2024-25 | Opta Analyst
Our Club Rugby Stats for the 2024-25 season includes individual player and team advanced stats broken down by category.
If you were making a loose trio out of those who play in Super Rugby, I think most people would opt for McReight at 7 and Wilson at 8.
There's your answer.
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@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Contrast the Crusaders who won - there wasn't a single Crusaders player in the top 10 disruptors this year.
We did have two guys in Christie and CLW that played dual disruptor roles.
Statistically they didn't have the same impact compared to others.
But there is a chicken or egg problem here: e.g. the Highlanders were shit, so they were always on defence, so their players made a lot of tackles and attended a lot of defensive rucks. Being in a losing team doesn't make them bad players, and it doesn't make them players who can only perform defensively - that's just what the job was.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Well are there really any technical skills Ardie uses which Jim doesn't have?
Chip kicks.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Well are there really any technical skills Ardie uses which Jim doesn't have?
Chip kicks.
I think Big Jim can/has done those actually. But not as much fun as going through them.
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@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Maintaining possession is more important than being disruptors. To be a prominent disruptor your team needs to be defending.
Obviously you don't have 100% possession so it helps to have at least one loose forward who can be a pest at the breakdown. They don't have to win numerous turnovers just slow the recycling of the ball enough for your defensive line to re-set. Christie is a good example of that in SR/NPC as his main trick is to get his hands on the ball and then look at the ref all innocent before being told to either release it, if he doesn't win a penalty. McReight is similar.
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@gt12 Jacobson is one of the better NZ loosies at winning breakdown turnovers, although I don't think he has started many games for the ABs at 7. The AB stats page is so shit now to check. Lakai could be the long-term answer but would need to modify his game at 7.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@gt12 Jacobson is one of the better NZ loosies at winning breakdown turnovers, although I don't think he has started many games for the ABs at 7. The AB stats page is so shit now to check. Lakai could be the long-term answer but would need to modify his game at 7.
Jacobson hasn't started any matches at 7 for the All Blacks. Would definitely be worth a shot between Parker and another big body at 8.
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The two best at disrupting the breakdown and winning turnovers were easily Savea and Kirifi in SRP. We tried them and they didn't exactly set the world on fire as a combo. Its just not an area where you need more than one guy. For us its Savea. For South Africa its Kwaga Smith for 30 minutes.
South Africa have a team of forwards who dominate collisions as a priority.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Not so sure. Ioane was all class in defense and hustle on the Aussies when the All Blacks were turning the screws and mounting the pressure on them keeping them pinned in their own half.. Tupaea while great on attack allowed them easy metres out wide and at times in the first half hour it looked like they could rip us a new one like the Sprinkboks did. Defense and pressuring other teams into mistakes to turn over possession is just such a critical part of test rugby now and Reiko is the best exponent of this at centre in NZ. It is something we have been shit at all season until the final 20 of this game.
I personally would like to see Tupaea at 12 and Ioane at 13 and Jordie Barrett the only one who looks assured under the high ball at 15. Jordan to the wing and massive practise on catching high balls. I just can't see us ever beating the boks consistently with him at the back catching less than 50% of high balls.
- Roigard
- Anyone other than Beauden or Damien
- Leroy Carter/Caleb Clarke
- Quinn Tuaaea
- Reiko Ioane
- Will Jordan
- Jordie Barrett
reserve Hotham/Ratima
reserve. Mackenzie
reserve. Leicester FaingaʻanukuAgree with this.
Jordan just isnt nailing it as a test fullback. He takes so many poor options hes better suited to right wing where he has less tactical influence - especially with our 10 options also taking poor options.
100% and have been saying that for a while. Jordan is a great winger but not a great fullback.
Who is better at 15, and which winger would you drop?
At the risk of triggering you. BB is a better 15.
I've probably said this before, but if moving BB to 15 was the price for getting him out of 10, I'd take that: he can't screw the entire backline from fullback.
He also genuinely used to be a world class fullback (shit he may even still be) - he's never been a world class 10, and his play there has deteriorated badly. TBH I think his best play historically may well have been coming off the bench, and another calm experienced guy coming on late should have been the ideal use for him I would have thought - though I don't really think that now, because he hasn't been going well under pressure lately.So if Jordan goes to a wing and BB to fullback... Is it Clarke/Fainganuku or Carter getting dropped? None of them deserve it on performance I'd reckon?
Jordan is better than all of them so doesn't really matter IMHO. All I know is that he is wasted at 15 and we need a better 10. What's Tom Taylor up to these days
