All Blacks 2026
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2026:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2026:
Could you please point out a time where Beauden and Savea have led a team to success? I’m not entirely sure their opinion means anything when they don’t know how to do it? I am really not sure why anyone is defending those two at all?
Barrett has one more RWC Cup medal around his neck than I do, scored a try in the final if I recall correctly. You'll have to ask a Canes fan to confirm but I think he was also pretty important in 2016 when they won Super Rugby. 20-3 I think?
Savea, according to AI:
"Moana Pasifika: In the 2025 Super Rugby Pacific season, as captain, Savea led Moana Pasifika to their most successful campaign to date, securing six wins and nearly making their first-ever playoffs appearance. His leadership was widely credited for the team's significant improvement.
Hurricanes: He was part of the Hurricanes' 2016 Super Rugby title-winning team. He later became the team's captain in 2021.
Wellington: Savea captained his Wellington provincial side during the 2015 ITM Cup season, leading them to the Championship division final.
Junior Levels: His leadership qualities were evident from a young age, as he captained his First XV school team and the New Zealand Schools team to victories.""Major Individual Awards (Cups):
World Rugby Player of the Year: 2023 (the sport's highest individual award).
Kelvin R. Tremain Memorial Player of the Year (NZ Rugby): 2019, 2023, 2025.
All Blacks Player of the Year: 2019, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2025.
Super Rugby Pacific Player of the Year: 2025 (for Moana Pasifika)."So only the last five mins of the RWC final in the greatest team of all time, scoring a try in garage time when the game was won. One super rugby title 10 years ago. Nothing since
Again, Savea, nothing since the start of his super rugby career. Not the leader, not the main player.
If anything, you’ve proved my point. No international success as leaders. Nothing in the past 3-4 years
Makes you wonder why Robertson kept selecting them, eh?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2026:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2026:
Could you please point out a time where Beauden and Savea have led a team to success? I’m not entirely sure their opinion means anything when they don’t know how to do it? I am really not sure why anyone is defending those two at all?
Barrett has one more RWC Cup medal around his neck than I do, scored a try in the final if I recall correctly. You'll have to ask a Canes fan to confirm but I think he was also pretty important in 2016 when they won Super Rugby. 20-3 I think?
Savea, according to AI:
"Moana Pasifika: In the 2025 Super Rugby Pacific season, as captain, Savea led Moana Pasifika to their most successful campaign to date, securing six wins and nearly making their first-ever playoffs appearance. His leadership was widely credited for the team's significant improvement.
Hurricanes: He was part of the Hurricanes' 2016 Super Rugby title-winning team. He later became the team's captain in 2021.
Wellington: Savea captained his Wellington provincial side during the 2015 ITM Cup season, leading them to the Championship division final.
Junior Levels: His leadership qualities were evident from a young age, as he captained his First XV school team and the New Zealand Schools team to victories.""Major Individual Awards (Cups):
World Rugby Player of the Year: 2023 (the sport's highest individual award).
Kelvin R. Tremain Memorial Player of the Year (NZ Rugby): 2019, 2023, 2025.
All Blacks Player of the Year: 2019, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2025.
Super Rugby Pacific Player of the Year: 2025 (for Moana Pasifika)."So only the last five mins of the RWC final in the greatest team of all time, scoring a try in garage time when the game was won. One super rugby title 10 years ago. Nothing since
Again, Savea, nothing since the start of his super rugby career. Not the leader, not the main player.
If anything, you’ve proved my point. No international success as leaders. Nothing in the past 3-4 years
Makes you wonder why Robertson kept selecting them, eh?
I completely agree with you. No where have I defended Robertson. I’m glad he’s gone
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It was fascinating to hear Paul mention Joseph, Brown and Rennie together as a team, as it had already been hinted at by someone in this thread I think.
The discussions from Kirk about giving freedom to choose / select assistants was welcome, we might have some movement towards NZRU being a professional organization now that Robinson is finally fucked right off.
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On the Savea thing; I think his membership of the PI AB group had maybe more influence on the course of events in the last few days, than his membership of the senior player AB group
He would be the unquestioned leader of the PI group.
Some one here posted some inside info here that the PIs as a group were pissed off.
That was a red flag for me.
I'd say Savea and Mealamu had a serious convo this week.When I heard that the PIs as a group were pissed; I considered it all over for Razor.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
It was fascinating to hear Paul mention Joseph, Brown and Rennie together as a team, as it had already been hinted at by someone in this thread I think.
The discussions from Kirk about giving freedom to choose / select assistants was welcome, we might have some movement towards NZRU being a professional organization now that Robinson is finally fucked right off.
Paul also mentioned another name for possible coach, Ian Foster….
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@westie_boy said in All Blacks 2026:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:
It was fascinating to hear Paul mention Joseph, Brown and Rennie together as a team, as it had already been hinted at by someone in this thread I think.
The discussions from Kirk about giving freedom to choose / select assistants was welcome, we might have some movement towards NZRU being a professional organization now that Robinson is finally fucked right off.
Paul also mentioned another name for possible coach, Ian Foster….
Doubt he'd be interested after the way he was treated.
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@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2026:
On the Savea thing; I think his membership of the PI AB group had maybe more influence on the course of events in the last few days, than his membership of the senior player AB group
He would be the unquestioned leader of the PI group.
Some one here posted some inside info here that the PIs as a group were pissed off.
That was a red flag for me.
I'd say Savea and Mealamu had a serious convo this week.When I heard that the PIs as a group were pissed; I considered it all over for Razor.
It's one of the challenges that has been flagged up here - on the pitch Ardie didnt get it done in 2025 but off the pitch he is more powerful than ever heading into 2026.
I don't see how an incoming coach is gonna feel he can drop him if that is what is best for the team because if he loses Ardies support and buy in that is gonna undermine his support from the wider playing group. Ardie is possibly the most powerful AB player ever since he has influence throughout the squad but also Mealamus ear.
It's not something I would personally want to manage.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2026:
So only the last five mins of the RWC final in the greatest team of all time, scoring a try in garage time when the game was won. One super rugby title 10 years ago. Nothing since
You forget the Rugby Championship (Tri Nations): 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023 (with the All Blacks)
Beauden Barrett was named an All Blacks vice-captain in 2017, captained the ABs against the Barbarians for a win.Again, Savea, nothing since the start of his super rugby career. Not the leader, not the main player.
The Rugby Championship Wins: 7 (2016, 2017, 2018, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023)
Ardie Savea joined the All Blacks leadership in August 2021, when he was named captain for the Rugby Championship. Note we won that year.If anything, you’ve proved my point. No international success as leaders. Nothing in the past 3-4 years
Ardie Savea was captain of the All Blacks in the historic 100th Test match against the Springboks:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/572331/all-blacks-centurion-ardie-savea-wants-to-keep-bringing-the-pressure
"The All Blacks loose forward and vice captain produced another outstanding performance in Saturday night's 24-17 win over the Springboks, which kept the 31-year unbeaten streak at Eden Park alive and kept New Zealand at the top of the Rugby Championship standings.
After a tepid loss in Argentina and the Eden Park record on the line against the world champion Boks, the All Blacks were under an enormous amount of pressure to perform.
Savea secured a turnover penalty near the end of the match with the South African's attacking the All Blacks tryline. It was a crucial play at a crucial time and helped the hosts seal the seven point win."https://www.allblacks.com/playerprofiles/ardie-savea
"Known for his leadership, Savea captained his First XV, the New Zealand Schools team, Wellington, and in 2021 became Hurricanes captain. He first led the All Blacks in a Test against Australia in Perth, becoming the 70th All Blacks Test captain, and also captained the side in the historic 100th Test against the Springboks in Townsville. In 2025 he moved to the Moana Pasifika Super Rugby team and led them to their most successful campaign to date." -
I'm not really a fan of BB as starter. And ambivalent about current Ardie. I think he got burnt out for Moana. And unbalances the trio. But they are senior ABs, command respect and have say in onfield* leadership decisions.
*edited. Lord knows why I initially wrote online.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2026:
So only the last five mins of the RWC final in the greatest team of all time, scoring a try in garage time when the game was won. One super rugby title 10 years ago. Nothing since
You forget the Rugby Championship (Tri Nations): 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023 (with the All Blacks)
Beauden Barrett was named an All Blacks vice-captain in 2017, captained the ABs against the Barbarians for a win.Again, Savea, nothing since the start of his super rugby career. Not the leader, not the main player.
The Rugby Championship Wins: 7 (2016, 2017, 2018, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023)
Ardie Savea joined the All Blacks leadership in August 2021, when he was named captain for the Rugby Championship. Note we won that year.If anything, you’ve proved my point. No international success as leaders. Nothing in the past 3-4 years
Ardie Savea was captain of the All Blacks in the historic 100th Test match against the Springboks:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/572331/all-blacks-centurion-ardie-savea-wants-to-keep-bringing-the-pressure
"The All Blacks loose forward and vice captain produced another outstanding performance in Saturday night's 24-17 win over the Springboks, which kept the 31-year unbeaten streak at Eden Park alive and kept New Zealand at the top of the Rugby Championship standings.
After a tepid loss in Argentina and the Eden Park record on the line against the world champion Boks, the All Blacks were under an enormous amount of pressure to perform.
Savea secured a turnover penalty near the end of the match with the South African's attacking the All Blacks tryline. It was a crucial play at a crucial time and helped the hosts seal the seven point win."https://www.allblacks.com/playerprofiles/ardie-savea
"Known for his leadership, Savea captained his First XV, the New Zealand Schools team, Wellington, and in 2021 became Hurricanes captain. He first led the All Blacks in a Test against Australia in Perth, becoming the 70th All Blacks Test captain, and also captained the side in the historic 100th Test against the Springboks in Townsville. In 2025 he moved to the Moana Pasifika Super Rugby team and led them to their most successful campaign to date."Again, no one denys Ardie puts up the occasional great performance. But he is a highlight real player, with an unsustainable leadership style that burns hot and bright for a few games and dies. He fucks the loose forward trio and doesn’t do the core roles of a 7 or 8. He’s part of the problem. Coming up with a turnover after 15mins of being invisible means not a lot I’m afraid.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:
I'm not really a fan of BB as starter. And ambivalent about current Ardie. I think he got burnt out for Moana. And unbalances the trio. But they are senior ABs, command respect and have say in online leadership.
Ardie has LeBron James levels of influence over the AB camp as far as I can see.
How a new coach can work within that reality is gonna be a key determinant in their chances of being successful. Clearly the outgoing coaches didn't have even the first idea of how to manage this, build and maintain relationships etc.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2026:
Again, no one denys Ardie puts up the occasional great performance. But he is a highlight real player, with an unsustainable leadership style that burns hot and bright for a few games and dies. He fucks the loose forward trio and doesn’t do the core roles of a 7 or 8. He’s part of the problem. Coming up with a turnover after 15mins of being invisible means not a lot I’m afraid.
I can't keep up with your twists and turns mate! Let's meet somewhere in the middle and say he may not be a good bet as a starting loose forward for the ABs in the future.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2026:
Again, no one denys Ardie puts up the occasional great performance. But he is a highlight real player, with an unsustainable leadership style that burns hot and bright for a few games and dies. He fucks the loose forward trio and doesn’t do the core roles of a 7 or 8. He’s part of the problem. Coming up with a turnover after 15mins of being invisible means not a lot I’m afraid.
I can't keep up with your twists and turns mate! Let's meet somewhere in the middle and say he may not be a good bet as a starting loose forward for the ABs in the future.
I’m not trying to twist and turn so apologies if I am. I just see him (and Beuden) as part of the systemic rot in the ABs environment and he needs to go
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2026:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2026:
So only the last five mins of the RWC final in the greatest team of all time, scoring a try in garage time when the game was won. One super rugby title 10 years ago. Nothing since
You forget the Rugby Championship (Tri Nations): 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023 (with the All Blacks)
Beauden Barrett was named an All Blacks vice-captain in 2017, captained the ABs against the Barbarians for a win.Again, Savea, nothing since the start of his super rugby career. Not the leader, not the main player.
The Rugby Championship Wins: 7 (2016, 2017, 2018, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023)
Ardie Savea joined the All Blacks leadership in August 2021, when he was named captain for the Rugby Championship. Note we won that year.If anything, you’ve proved my point. No international success as leaders. Nothing in the past 3-4 years
Ardie Savea was captain of the All Blacks in the historic 100th Test match against the Springboks:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/572331/all-blacks-centurion-ardie-savea-wants-to-keep-bringing-the-pressure
"The All Blacks loose forward and vice captain produced another outstanding performance in Saturday night's 24-17 win over the Springboks, which kept the 31-year unbeaten streak at Eden Park alive and kept New Zealand at the top of the Rugby Championship standings.
After a tepid loss in Argentina and the Eden Park record on the line against the world champion Boks, the All Blacks were under an enormous amount of pressure to perform.
Savea secured a turnover penalty near the end of the match with the South African's attacking the All Blacks tryline. It was a crucial play at a crucial time and helped the hosts seal the seven point win."https://www.allblacks.com/playerprofiles/ardie-savea
"Known for his leadership, Savea captained his First XV, the New Zealand Schools team, Wellington, and in 2021 became Hurricanes captain. He first led the All Blacks in a Test against Australia in Perth, becoming the 70th All Blacks Test captain, and also captained the side in the historic 100th Test against the Springboks in Townsville. In 2025 he moved to the Moana Pasifika Super Rugby team and led them to their most successful campaign to date."Again, no one denys Ardie puts up the occasional great performance. But he is a highlight real player, with an unsustainable leadership style that burns hot and bright for a few games and dies. He fucks the loose forward trio and doesn’t do the core roles of a 7 or 8. He’s part of the problem. Coming up with a turnover after 15mins of being invisible means not a lot I’m afraid.
Yeah, 100%
Essentially, Ardie does not perform the core requirements of his role on a consistent basis but you have to work around that.
If I'm not mistaken Razor played him every minute of all 12 matches he played in this year which did not end up being a successful approach.I think how the new coach deals with Ardie is gonna be a key factor in determining the chances of success in the next two years. Razors group were clueless in that regard.
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@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2026:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2026:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2026:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2026:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2026:
No I am saying that Ardie should have been just as damning of Foster not saying "hes my coach and I have his back" if he was consistent and not one of the single biggest problems in the team culture himself.
??
Maybe because Ardie wasn't ignored by the Head Coach when he had problems/concerns
Are you saying the All Blacks should not be about test results but making Ardie Savea feel listened to and important?
I'm saying a really shit coach treats his players like shit and creates a toxic culture where players simply give up trying - which is what we've seen this year.
Are you saying there are no example of coaches treating players like shit and keeping the culture on edge that have not produced wildly successful results?
If Razor had produced wildly successful results he would still be in a job
Where did I disagree with that? I am asking why Ardie Savea didn't want Ian Foster fired for producing equally dire results.
As far as things are known, Ardie’s and the other players’ feedback is not about the results but the overall environment and organisation.
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@westie_boy said in All Blacks 2026:
Is Tony Brown free to join as an assistant coach?
The added bonus of him coaching the AB’s is that it also takes him away from SA where he has been vital in there success.
I wonder if denying SA his talents will play any part in NZRs thinking?It’s a win win scenario for nz if they can get him , I mean they are the team to beat after all
