RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina
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i cared way more then! but i was a teenager soooo
@mariner4life Lol mate I was 41 by then and as you say with age comes sense or something. Hell when we lost SF in 2003 I lived in Aus and copped a little bit, but was still able to shrug it off. Wan't always grown up enough to do that I admit.
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This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
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@sparky said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
They’ve announced when the team is being named. https://twitter.com/allblacks/status/1714375292620538101
So is it widely accepted that the only change to the 23 will be a straight swap, Telea for Fainga'anuku?
Possible perhaps Fainga'anuku drops to the bench, because ALB did sub on at left wing in the end.
Other possibility is Roigard on the bench by the horses for courses argument, but I can't see it, and I doubt there will be any other changes. The team who was good enough to beat the World Number One is the one to go for, outside of Telea, that was out best 23.
@frugby said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
So is it widely accepted that the only change to the 23 will be a straight swap, Telea for Fainga'anuku?
Minimal changes. More game time for the bench. Injuries are my concern
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@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
I still stand by lowest ever word ranking and also biggest ever losses against pretty much every Tier 1 side means he has been a disaster for the ABs. I love for us to win the RWC but the shit that has gone on before makes it not worth it.
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@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
Well we are yet to see Stevenson at fullback in a test match. One game on the wing when the whole team was changed doesn't answer the question of him as a fullback.
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@BerniesCorner said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@stodders said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
So if Angus blows a calf, Berry or Dickson will take over
And if Smith blows a calf what's the plan.
Just saying.We make urgent appointments with the cardiologist.
There’s two players that we can least avoid being injured, Nuggie and Ardie. Their replacements are okay-ish, but all the little stuff these two do during the game I don’t see them even in the same stratosphere.
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
We make urgent appointments with the cardiologist.
Funnily enough, some of the local old buggers are thinking of a get-together for the final. One is recently-retired cardiologist....
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
I still stand by lowest ever word ranking and also biggest ever losses against pretty much every Tier 1 side means he has been a disaster for the ABs. I love for us to win the RWC but the shit that has gone on before makes it not worth it.
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
I still stand by lowest ever word ranking and also biggest ever losses against pretty much every Tier 1 side means he has been a disaster for the ABs. I love for us to win the RWC but the shit that has gone on before makes it not worth it.
I think this is in many ways correct. The All Blacks are different (at least historically) to other countries in that we are dominant all the time, and do well at World Cups. We haven't been like France, South Africa, even Australia, who peak at World Cups, often because players who hadn't been involved across the cycle due to eligibility rules are parachuted in.
Now I don't think we can call Foster a failure if we win the World Cup, but he is also definitely not a failure, and will be deserving of the praise that should come.
The question is, is this the new normal? I think there is probably something in the fact that the current set of All Blacks are not actually better, certainly not markedly better than France, Ireland and South Africa.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
Well we are yet to see Stevenson at fullback in a test match. One game on the wing when the whole team was changed doesn't answer the question of him as a fullback.
@KiwiMurph said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
Well we are yet to see Stevenson at fullback in a test match. One game on the wing when the whole team was changed doesn't answer the question of him as a fullback.
Well, that went "Whoosh!", I guess.
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@Dan54 said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@BerniesCorner said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Come on Foz you got this
Yep Bernie, much more come on the players you got this I think. Foz isn't playing. But understand your point.
It's time to move on.
If we win this it will be our greatest achievement@BerniesCorner said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
If we win this it will be our greatest achievement
One of. Would def. rate with the 1996 SA series and, going into the mists of time, the '77 Lions series.
One game at a time though. (C'mon Foz. You got this)
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It's all hyperbolic bullshit anyway. Damaged the legacy? jog on.
Lost the Bledisloe? No
Lost the Rugby Championship? No
Crashed out of the World Cup early? No"Oh but we lost to Ireland for the first time" they wail. Have Ireland ever been the best team in the world before?
"we lost to France!" well this is the best French team i have ever seen. And we've only played them in France.Has it all been sunshine and blowjobs? No. Losing to Argentina at home still rankles, despite the fact they gat an annual chance at it now. And there have been some very average games. But really, that is just us reverting to the mean. Even this tarnished legacy regime is winning 7 out of 10 times isn't it?
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
If people think the last 4 years were shit and damaged the legacy, they didn't live thru the '70's...
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@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
I still stand by lowest ever word ranking and also biggest ever losses against pretty much every Tier 1 side means he has been a disaster for the ABs. I love for us to win the RWC but the shit that has gone on before makes it not worth it.
I think this is in many ways correct. The All Blacks are different (at least historically) to other countries in that we are dominant all the time, and do well at World Cups. We haven't been like France, South Africa, even Australia, who peak at World Cups, often because players who hadn't been involved across the cycle due to eligibility rules are parachuted in.
Now I don't think we can call Foster a failure if we win the World Cup, but he is also definitely not a failure, and will be deserving of the praise that should come.
The question is, is this the new normal? I think there is probably something in the fact that the current set of All Blacks are not actually better, certainly not markedly better than France, Ireland and South Africa.
@frugby said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
I still stand by lowest ever word ranking and also biggest ever losses against pretty much every Tier 1 side means he has been a disaster for the ABs. I love for us to win the RWC but the shit that has gone on before makes it not worth it.
I think this is in many ways correct. The All Blacks are different (at least historically) to other countries in that we are dominant all the time, and do well at World Cups. We haven't been like France, South Africa, even Australia, who peak at World Cups, often because players who hadn't been involved across the cycle due to eligibility rules are parachuted in.
Now I don't think we can call Foster a failure if we win the World Cup, but he is also definitely not a failure, and will be deserving of the praise that should come.
The question is, is this the new normal? I think there is probably something in the fact that the current set of All Blacks are not actually better, certainly not markedly better than France, Ireland and South Africa.
I think this probably is closer to normal now, I know we all toss off that ABs have generally been on top or thereabouts all the time, but have a look, so historically are our U20s. The rest of the world has caught up, I thought they would earlier when game went pro, but it is happening.
Would I rather have it where we have to fight more for wins or have it like it was in days when we turned up and basically beat most teams uo like the late 80S, I will have us having to be at top of our game to win, it's a lot more satisfying. -
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
If people think the last 4 years were shit and damaged the legacy, they didn't live thru the '70's...
@Victor-Meldrew - oh yes as a kid watching those '71 Lions win the series
John Eales and that ridulous kick to retain the Cup
Those were real bad times -
It's all hyperbolic bullshit anyway. Damaged the legacy? jog on.
Lost the Bledisloe? No
Lost the Rugby Championship? No
Crashed out of the World Cup early? No"Oh but we lost to Ireland for the first time" they wail. Have Ireland ever been the best team in the world before?
"we lost to France!" well this is the best French team i have ever seen. And we've only played them in France.Has it all been sunshine and blowjobs? No. Losing to Argentina at home still rankles, despite the fact they gat an annual chance at it now. And there have been some very average games. But really, that is just us reverting to the mean. Even this tarnished legacy regime is winning 7 out of 10 times isn't it?
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
It's all hyperbolic bullshit anyway. Damaged the legacy? jog on.
Lost the Bledisloe? No
Lost the Rugby Championship? No
Crashed out of the World Cup early? No"Oh but we lost to Ireland for the first time" they wail. Have Ireland ever been the best team in the world before?
"we lost to France!" well this is the best French team i have ever seen. And we've only played them in France.Has it all been sunshine and blowjobs? No. Losing to Argentina at home still rankles, despite the fact they gat an annual chance at it now. And there have been some very average games. But really, that is just us reverting to the mean. Even this tarnished legacy regime is winning 7 out of 10 times isn't it?
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
98 was fucking vintage compared to some of the bumbling, clueless losses under Foster.
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@frugby said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
I still stand by lowest ever word ranking and also biggest ever losses against pretty much every Tier 1 side means he has been a disaster for the ABs. I love for us to win the RWC but the shit that has gone on before makes it not worth it.
I think this is in many ways correct. The All Blacks are different (at least historically) to other countries in that we are dominant all the time, and do well at World Cups. We haven't been like France, South Africa, even Australia, who peak at World Cups, often because players who hadn't been involved across the cycle due to eligibility rules are parachuted in.
Now I don't think we can call Foster a failure if we win the World Cup, but he is also definitely not a failure, and will be deserving of the praise that should come.
The question is, is this the new normal? I think there is probably something in the fact that the current set of All Blacks are not actually better, certainly not markedly better than France, Ireland and South Africa.
I think this probably is closer to normal now, I know we all toss off that ABs have generally been on top or thereabouts all the time, but have a look, so historically are our U20s. The rest of the world has caught up, I thought they would earlier when game went pro, but it is happening.
Would I rather have it where we have to fight more for wins or have it like it was in days when we turned up and basically beat most teams uo like the late 80S, I will have us having to be at top of our game to win, it's a lot more satisfying.@Dan54 said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@frugby said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
I still stand by lowest ever word ranking and also biggest ever losses against pretty much every Tier 1 side means he has been a disaster for the ABs. I love for us to win the RWC but the shit that has gone on before makes it not worth it.
I think this is in many ways correct. The All Blacks are different (at least historically) to other countries in that we are dominant all the time, and do well at World Cups. We haven't been like France, South Africa, even Australia, who peak at World Cups, often because players who hadn't been involved across the cycle due to eligibility rules are parachuted in.
Now I don't think we can call Foster a failure if we win the World Cup, but he is also definitely not a failure, and will be deserving of the praise that should come.
The question is, is this the new normal? I think there is probably something in the fact that the current set of All Blacks are not actually better, certainly not markedly better than France, Ireland and South Africa.
I think this probably is closer to normal now, I know we all toss off that ABs have generally been on top or thereabouts all the time, but have a look, so historically are our U20s. The rest of the world has caught up, I thought they would earlier when game went pro, but it is happening.
Would I rather have it where we have to fight more for wins or have it like it was in days when we turned up and basically beat most teams uo like the late 80S, I will have us having to be at top of our game to win, it's a lot more satisfying.The rest of the world, i.e. Ireland. I think most can cop losses to better teams with better players, but its the manner of these recent losses (and that fůcking draw with England) that people are complaining about. Everything from the tactics, to selections, to execution has been substandard. They pulled it together against Ireland now, awesome, it was glorious. But surely you have to admit that this side played some pretty shit rugby up until then and that wasn't because everyone else is now just better than us.
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@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
If people think the last 4 years were shit and damaged the legacy, they didn't live thru the '70's...
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
If people think the last 4 years were shit and damaged the legacy, they didn't live thru the '70's...
Just on that, all the coaches during the 70s have better records than Foz. It’s the 50s that were worst.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
If people think the last 4 years were shit and damaged the legacy, they didn't live thru the '70's...
Just on that, all the coaches during the 70s have better records than Foz. It’s the 50s that were worst.
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
If people think the last 4 years were shit and damaged the legacy, they didn't live thru the '70's...
Just on that, all the coaches during the 70s have better records than Foz. It’s the 50s that were worst.
Not in Tests they don't.
Vodanovich 3 years, 10 Tests, won 4, drew 1.
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
If people think the last 4 years were shit and damaged the legacy, they didn't live thru the '70's...
Just on that, all the coaches during the 70s have better records than Foz. It’s the 50s that were worst.
Not in Tests they don't.
Vodanovich 3 years, 10 Tests, won 4, drew 1.
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
If people think the last 4 years were shit and damaged the legacy, they didn't live thru the '70's...
Just on that, all the coaches during the 70s have better records than Foz. It’s the 50s that were worst.
Not in Tests they don't.
Vodanovich 3 years, 10 Tests, won 4, drew 1.
Vodanovich’s overall record is far better 81%
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
If people think the last 4 years were shit and damaged the legacy, they didn't live thru the '70's...
Just on that, all the coaches during the 70s have better records than Foz. It’s the 50s that were worst.
Not in Tests they don't.
Vodanovich 3 years, 10 Tests, won 4, drew 1.
Vodanovich’s overall record is far better 81%
I've sure if Foster's All Blacks played 30 games against the likes of Outer Natal or Oxford University, his record would be better. Heck the AB's lost games to English, Irish & Welsh club teams back then
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@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
None of them lost to Ireland or Argentina, Foster has done both
Foster hasn't lost to Wales either. We lost to Irish & Welsh club teams in the '70's
