All Blacks 2025

Mr Fish

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

That AB XV squad really does seem like a bit of a wasted opportunity not to look at another winger - they have a heap of fullback cover already - someone like Fehi Fineanganofo would be ideal

I wonder if perhaps they want to see Rona on the wing.

To be honest, I'd rather see the same back three of ENS, JRK and Tangitau rolled out for each of the three matches. All three of those guys could be All Blacks next year and while that shouldn't preclude the selection of a guy Fineanganofo, I don't think there's an absolute need to get him in the there just yet.

reprobate

@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

@KiwiMurph But, doesn't all that pre-suppose that Akira was going to be a compelling selection?

A week or so before he announced he was off, the Blues went down to Christchurch and lost to the worst Crusaders in living memory. What if they'd shit the bed in the 2024 semi-final as per 2023?

I'm honestly not trying to troll you or anything.

I just don't see the logic.

And I suspect it's because you guys are looking at what his career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.

I'm in the Akira leaving is on Akira camp - but that was a Blues side with the foot off the gas, and nowhere near as bad a Crusaders team as you're saying (on the day, the season was abject).

Notably their three best players in Blackadder, Taylor & Williams, and their 10 in Burke all playing - and all of whom played bugger all due to injury that season.

ShaquilleOatmeal

@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

@Chris-B

Not when your argument is they were never going to pick players who were going overseas.

That's not my argument.

They were never going to pick Akira once he was going overseas, because what was he going to bring? Leadership? A deep understanding of All Black culture? Lessons on what not to do?

Robertson selected last year’s squads thinking those players would get him a good win record in his first season and for no reason other than that. He thought Cane and Perenara would do the job and Ioane wouldn’t. That they were going overseas wasn’t a factor.

So, do you also reckon the reason Mark Teleá hasn't been picked this year is because the coaches don't think he'd do as good of a job as Sevu, Rieko, Leicester, etc on the wing?

I'm pretty sure they've not picked him because it would be a waste of time giving caps to a guy who's heading overseas next year.

I think it’s now year two and Robertson is being ‘more bold’ in his selections. He wanted a good first year (didn’t really get it) but realised he couldn’t continue picking players who were leaving.

Victor Meldrew

@Tim said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

Does Jacobson ever play? Is he an extra coach or something?

Arguably the most baffling selection of Robertson's reign. We seem to have played everyone, everywhere at 6/78 - except Jacobson.

Chris B.

@reprobate Crikey!

We were shit all season (probably excluding this game) but have you not gleaned the Fern assessments of these guys?

Shalfoon - soft thug
Strange - weak moron
Blackadder - Busy but ineffectual
Hotham - probably not awful
Reece - old, slow and useless
Havili - worse than Reece
Aumua - worse than Havili and the worst midfielder ever

That's just the Ta$man players.

canefan

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

@Tim said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

Does Jacobson ever play? Is he an extra coach or something?

Arguably the most baffling selection of Robertson's reign. We seem to have played everyone, everywhere at 6/78 - except Jacobson.

He's like the Charlie Ngatai of the forwards, except he actually gets selected and travels but doesn't play

Victor Meldrew

@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

Midfielders: Braydon Ennor, David Havili, Dallas McLeod, Daniel Rona

Assume he's there for midfield leadership?

canefan

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

Midfielders: Braydon Ennor, David Havili, Dallas McLeod, Daniel Rona

Assume he's there for midfield leadership?

Can understand having a mix of experienced players and up and comers. An inexperienced team might struggle, which isn't ideal for them

canefan

I'm going to say Patty T is a big loss. I don't think it's a coincidence that his play closing out the final 25 odd minutes in games gives us a more stable look than when he's not there

canefan

@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

@KiwiMurph But, doesn't all that pre-suppose that Akira was going to be a compelling selection?

A week or so before he announced he was off, the Blues went down to Christchurch and lost to the worst Crusaders in living memory. What if they'd shit the bed in the 2024 semi-final as per 2023?

I'm honestly not trying to troll you or anything.

I just don't see the logic.

And I suspect it's because you guys are looking at what his career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.

I don't think Akira's and Hoskins' contributions in black aren't any worse than some of the guys who have been given extended runs (EB and Frizell come to mind). Coaches play favourites and always have. At the same time, both guys have been passed over by more than one AB coaching group. So perhaps both sides have elements of truth. Obviously we aren't seeing something that the coaches are. Or they are just plain wrong

brodean

@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

They were never going to pick him once he signed in Japan.

They picked Cane and Perenara.

Yes, but Cane is a 100 cap All Black captain and Perenara has been around for 10 years as an ever-present. In a team that had been badly shorn of experience. And TJ didn't announce he'd signed overseas until after the AB season had started and he'd been picked.

Akira had a chequered AB career and hadn't even made the team for RWC.

Is there not an obvious difference?

One was the first player to get a red card in an RWC final and the other one wasn't.

canefan

@brodean said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

They were never going to pick him once he signed in Japan.

They picked Cane and Perenara.

Yes, but Cane is a 100 cap All Black captain and Perenara has been around for 10 years as an ever-present. In a team that had been badly shorn of experience. And TJ didn't announce he'd signed overseas until after the AB season had started and he'd been picked.

Akira had a chequered AB career and hadn't even made the team for RWC.

Is there not an obvious difference?

One was the first player to get a red card in an RWC final and the other one wasn't.

Ouchee

KiwiMurph

@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

@KiwiMurph But, doesn't all that pre-suppose that Akira was going to be a compelling selection?

A week or so before he announced he was off, the Blues went down to Christchurch and lost to the worst Crusaders in living memory. What if they'd shit the bed in the 2024 semi-final as per 2023?

I'm honestly not trying to troll you or anything.

I just don't see the logic.

And I suspect it's because you guys are looking at what his career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.

How did Akira in particular go in that game? My memory was he had a strong game that day and that it was Choat who was playing for an unavailable Papalii who was the loose forward who got outplayed.

I guess my frustration is this:

Akira is clearly a huge talent which Razor has known about since he coached him in the NZ U20s

Razor didn't show a great deal of interest in Akira and working with him.

Vern Cotter in one season managed to get Akira firing on all cylinders including the final where Akira put in an incredible shift at 6 showing everything we are looking for at a 6 (go have a look at 2024 final to see how well Akira played).

There is a general lack of size and power in NZ loose forwards - mostly dominated by hybrid loosies who do a bit of everything.

Now we have a situation where Razor has come out and publicly stated that "test rugby is a game for big men" and we are crying out for more size and power in the forwards yet at the same time I don't believe Razor has truly turned over every stone and we are paying the price.

Chris B.

@KiwiMurph I'm not going to disagree with much of that.

Except, we have no real idea about the discussions Akira and Razor might have had.

Unless they tell us, it's all in the realm of fantasy.

brodean

@reprobate said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

@KiwiMurph But, doesn't all that pre-suppose that Akira was going to be a compelling selection?

A week or so before he announced he was off, the Blues went down to Christchurch and lost to the worst Crusaders in living memory. What if they'd shit the bed in the 2024 semi-final as per 2023?

I'm honestly not trying to troll you or anything.

I just don't see the logic.

And I suspect it's because you guys are looking at what his career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.

I'm in the Akira leaving is on Akira camp - but that was a Blues side with the foot off the gas, and nowhere near as bad a Crusaders team as you're saying (on the day, the season was abject).

Notably their three best players in Blackadder, Taylor & Williams, and their 10 in Burke all playing - and all of whom played bugger all due to injury that season.

So the Blues lost by 2 points away time the Crusaders with a few key Blues players out. Big deal.

This is basically the same Crusaders side that won the title a year later.

Chris B.

@brodean For a start, we were missing the greatest offensive weapon ever in test rugby.

"Can run fast and swivel his hips - otherwise largely useless".

Bones

Have I completely misunderstood that ENS is buggering off?

nostrildamus

@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

And I suspect it's because you guys are looking at what his career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.

Nah.
I suspect it's because Ryan et al are looking at what Shannon's career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.

Hot take, Akira played better in the ABs than Shannon. He's over a year younger. And he stood up to drunk bogan halfbacks without collecting restraining orders.

mikedogz

@Bones said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

Have I completely misunderstood that ENS is buggering off?

There was chat he was going to France but he has signed with the Chiefs for another year. Last year I thought he was the second best left winger behind Caleb Clarke. It was unfortunate he got injured this year. I expect he plays mainly at Fullback for the Chiefs next year and could be an improvement on Stevenson with better all-round skills.

KiwiMurph

@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:

@KiwiMurph I'm not going to disagree with much of that.

Except, we have no real idea about the discussions Akira and Razor might have had.

Unless they tell us, it's all in the realm of fantasy.

My view is that given how much time Razor has had in the role, the noises he and Ryan have made about other players and that Akira didn't last long after Ryan took over says all you need to know about what the regime thinks of Akira.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks 2025