The Silver Fern

Have enquired r.e a knee surgery for Tavatavanawai but nobody seems to know of it. I guess it is possible, he is getting some stuff tidied up over Christmas, but nothing to suggest it will be longer-term.

@Nogusta Hadn’t heard that. Will enquire.

@jimmyb said in Highlanders 2026:

Are we completely injury free leading up to pre season or have any players been confirmed to miss a few rounds/season?

Jim is a couple of weeks away, I imagine Te Hiwi and Ma’u won’t be ready till after Christmas

Renton is out till the back end of January

I really want to love it, but there is something about it that just seems a little off to me, can’t really put my finger on it.

At the end of the day, I remember kits for how well we play in them so this will be an all-time classic

@Bovidae One would assume, it'll be France in Christchurch, and Ireland/Australia in Auckland. Wellington is likely to get the other one of those, unless Auckland takes both and they play Italy there.

If they opt for a fourth venue, would likely be Italy in Dunedin, but given there is only four home tests, I suspect they will want two in Auckland.

The other consideration, is that Italy might be a tougher sell, so Christchurch could be the ideal location for it.

@canefan said in New All Black Coach:

@frugby said in New All Black Coach:

@canefan said in New All Black Coach:

@taniwharugby said in New All Black Coach:

When are.they looking to announce the replacement for Holland?

Who are suitable and available candidates?

If I recall they didn't say there definitely would be a replacement. They might just rearrange duties with the guys they've got

I think the replacement possibly depends a little bit on what happens with Tamati Ellison.

Razor's traditional right-hand man always seemed to be Jason Ryan, and I wonder whether if he isn't thrown out, whether Scott Hansen being moved into a lesser role (Defence Coach), with a fresh attack coach brought in, might actuallly result in meaningful change.

The trouble with your theory is that article in which Razor basically said Hansen is the ad hoc head coach. Whereas he is the blue sky feels guy. Add to that the rumour that Leon left because he wasn't happy answering to Hansen. The smoke billows around Hansen

Oh totally agree - I guess I was trying to look at what could be a semi-realistic situation that is better than what we have currently - because I can't see Razor, Ryan or Hansen going before the Boks Tour.

@mariner4life said in New All Black Coach:

@frugby said in New All Black Coach:

moved into a lesser role (Defence Coach

if we see the defence coach as a lessor role then we are truly fucked

I think defence coach is probably lesser than attack coach? In theory, how you attack decides how much you defend.

Lesser might not be the right word, but I think in terms of seniority, I definitely think it sits above.

@canefan said in New All Black Coach:

@taniwharugby said in New All Black Coach:

When are.they looking to announce the replacement for Holland?

Who are suitable and available candidates?

If I recall they didn't say there definitely would be a replacement. They might just rearrange duties with the guys they've got

I think the replacement possibly depends a little bit on what happens with Tamati Ellison.

Razor's traditional right-hand man always seemed to be Jason Ryan, and I wonder whether if he isn't thrown out, whether Scott Hansen being moved into a lesser role (Defence Coach), with a fresh attack coach brought in, might actuallly result in meaningful change.

As much as we all take the piss out of Scott Hansen, he does actually have a reasonable resume, but the interesting thing with it, is he has only ever been in places for a maximum of three seasons - is that maybe an indication of his personality.

That said, if he really is an insipid twat, I can't really see how he would have survived with Jamie Joseph and Tony Brown for the best part of five years, then gone onto the Crusaders, and then be welcome into the All Blacks.

I really look forward to the lid being lifted on the BTS of the 2024-25 All Blacks.

Scott Hansen

United a nation and made the impossible possible.

Given the ABs play only 4 home tests next year, I wonder whether they could potentially organise for the ABs XV to play some games during the July International period.

I know this is when the Maori ABs have traditionally played, but I feel like this would be a great chance for the next tier to get some experience ahead of the Boks Tour

Inherently I don’t mind Jamieson being managed, but I feel like if this was going to be the case he’d have been better served playing the Ford Trophy and first two rounds of the Plunket Shield for Canterbury to get him ready as opposed to playing the T20s and ODIs

@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:

@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:

I’d be happy to see Robertson go, but I think there is a little bit of an overreaction with how the season went.

It was obviously very disappointing, and not at the level needed, but fuck me, it could have been way worse.

Split the ledger with the Boks, dealt to Ireland, and was comfortable against Scotland.

There was also plenty of positive signs in the first few French tests, though we failed to build on those.

I think it is fairly inconceivable things are successful with Scott Hansen involved, but I do think with the right assistant Razor could turn this around.

I can't recall a game this season where I felt we dominated. Maybe one of the Bleds. But we hung on in at least a couple of those games. Our defence is so leaky. We have serious issues, if Razor stays he will be the figurehead and should lose all of his assistants as a consequence

Absolutely can’t recall a game we have dominated start to finish - but the flip of that is we haven’t exactly been dominated start to finish by other sides.

Easy to forget we were the better side in the first half against the Boks in Wellington.

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:

@frugby What, exactly, would Razor be doing to turn it around in your scenario?

From the outside we’re only guessing at what the actual issues are, but I suspect the big one, is the none Crusaders players, in large, don’t like Scott Hansen, and with results going poorly there is not a 100% but in.

I actually reckon there is a fair chance that Robertson is at the very least not actively disliked - because I think if he was he would be out the door given the way player power works in the modern environment.

In hindsight, he backed the wrong horse with Hansen and should have crafted a different coaching team.

As I have said previously, given the issues, it might be easier to start again with a new head coach, as finding the right assistant coach, who a) is up to the task, and b) is accepted by the players is probably a little more difficult than we pretend it is

I’d be happy to see Robertson go, but I think there is a little bit of an overreaction with how the season went.

It was obviously very disappointing, and not at the level needed, but fuck me, it could have been way worse.

Split the ledger with the Boks, dealt to Ireland, and was comfortable against Scotland.

There was also plenty of positive signs in the first few French tests, though we failed to build on those.

I think it is fairly inconceivable things are successful with Scott Hansen involved, but I do think with the right assistant Razor could turn this around.

@brodean I don't think Dalton Papalii can be seen as a nailed on starter until he does it in black to be fair (this isn't me saying he shouldn't get the chance to do so).

An interesting tidbit I heard was that Sean Withy isn't rated by Robertson and co at all, and given Christie was dispensed with in the end too, this clearly points to them wanting a different style of 7.

Assuming Joseph was the replacement, I'd be intrigued to see the direction of travel. He clearly like Withy, and he made Papalii his captain of the XV.

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:

@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:

The fact that there is not an obvious pick for captain probably speaks volumes as to where the ABs are at - and personally I think this is separate from the coaches.

Even of coaches change, I don’t necessarily think the likes of Papalii are ‘nailed on’ starters. I think you could probably say Taylor, Holland, Savea, Roigard, J Barrett and Will Jordan are probably the only universal nailed on starters, and half the fern wouldn’t have Ardie in there, + even Holland is dubious to be called nailed on. Heck, with the emergence of Pledger is out the realms that this time next year Roigard is not a nailed on starter?

You could make Codie Taylor captain, but that feels like a sticking plaster given his age and stage.

No sorry, you don't get to do that, you don't get to separate the players from the coaching group. Players that have come into this environment have regressed. That's not a player issue, that's purely a coaching, selection and gameplan issue. It's almost impossible for players to look good under this current regime when none of the above is suited to test footy. We have coaches that are well and truly out of their depth and that is impacting our players form and confidence.

The only positive I take from this is that we absolutely do still have the cattle to be the worlds best, but we have to first actually select the best players, and then next we need a coach that knows what is required at test level to get the best out of them.

That's fair - but I still think a new coach comes in, and some of the issues remain. I think a new coach could improve some of these issues, but I think it needs to be made clear that if there was a change, it won't magically result in us winning 15 tests in a run.

Our win rate since Foster took over is 70%, which is not disimilar to what it was in the 1990s, when rugby was less competitive than it is now. Of course, the issue currently is not just results, it is the manner of performance, but I think it really needs to be pointed out, that a new coach shouldn't be viewed as a silver bullet.

@brodean You can't gaslight me. What about Proctor not laying a glove on the guy in the weekend? What about him getting palmed off like a little school kid in Dunedin.

@brodean Yes but I think nearly universally everyone thinks Jordan and Jordie should be on the field - at least whoever coaches the team will likely think tha.