The Silver Fern

@Jimmy-Jimmy said in All Blacks 2026:

Does anyone know where JJ is right now ?
Wellington, hopefully.

as head coach of the Highlanders going to say hes doing preseason in dunedin

@Chris said in All Blacks 2026:

@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2026:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2026:

i was about to post "I will absolutely crack up if they sack the coaches and then the same players get picked in July anyway"

The ABs are sort of like any other pro sports franchise now.
Easier to sack the coach, than to sack the players.
Sacking the players is even more difficult in the ABs case than in a "normal" sports franchise because of the national qualfication required in all the players contracts.
The players have power.
Not possible to do a Wayne Shelford these days.

Well they wouldn’t be sacked by NZR as they would have their SR and Npc contracts just not AB contracts it is not being sacked just not selected like every other AB who has lost his AB spot.

and thats where my concern comes in, are the coaches been told they cant have a new player if they already have a couple of guys in a position signed......the old "we have food at home" argument

@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2026:

@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2026:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2026:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2026:

assuming its true....really just for the purposes of a chat

im conflicted.....i didn't want them to drag things out like they did with fozzie...but also....getting rid of razor and keeping all the players that have been there through these poor performances and possibly seeding the toxic environment is also not good

i was about to post "I will absolutely crack up if they sack the coaches and then the same players get picked in July anyway"

If they win, and play well, we'll know what the problem was.

But I think it's clear that there is a good 20% surfing in on the back of the provincial cabal currently in charge.

if it was me?
The skipper moves to a squaddie spot
I am looking at 3 new starting loose forwards, Ardie to the bench.
BB to the paddock, DMac promoted and the most promising young 10 to the bench.
I am looking very hard at both midfield spots, definitely a new (or even returned) centre.
A new fullback, Jordan back to a wing.

agreed

other teams are trying to make their benches weapons to change the game in the final quarter......our is just the second best player in a position....even if its a pure like for like swap...i mix of someone like savea with the next generation could be lethal

assuming its true....really just for the purposes of a chat

im conflicted.....i didn't want them to drag things out like they did with fozzie...but also....getting rid of razor and keeping all the players that have been there through these poor performances and possibly seeding the toxic environment is also not good

@Grooter my feeling is weve never really had the depth of other teams, if we do get good players down they are starting, no one is coming down to be part of the squad...and so if we do have injuries.....we're immediately starting youth/Journeymen/injury prone...and asking them to play week in week out...which probably leads to more injuries

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2026:

Is there a chance that Razor and his team goes before the RWC if we have a poor year?

Not much, noone else would take the job as it would be a no win I suspect.

Makes me wonder who was the last coach if any to win an RWC within 2 years of being appointed...there is of course the tactical surprise/potential advantage of a new kid on the block...

Plus there is always the option of keeping the head coach (the ra ra guy) and getting rid of an assistant coach (the Captain Bligh guy)...

In case this is not a rhetorical question, the current WC winning coach.

Appointed 2017, they won in 2019.

Yep , mind you he was already their director of rugby. Not sure we have similar. Wayne Smith is perhaps close, but I will bet he won't take job on.

He took up the DOR role in December 2017, became coach in February 2018.

He may have been planning since June of that year, but the point stands that people can take over and win.

its wild, feels like hes been with the Bokke to decades, so big is his presence in the game

@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2026:

If true, who has made that decision?

If it's the coaches, they might not be a lost cause just yet, but if it's Savea, that adds further fuel to the fire about the toxic nature of the current AB setup.

yeah...would have a lot of respect if the coaches came out and said they were effectively starting from scratch, players picked on form, everyone had to earn their spots back etc

@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:

TBH, I don't believe this conspiracy theory, if Richie Razor Jnr Mo'unga was in NZ all this time he would have been starting.

We'll never know how it would have played out over the last couple of years, but we will get an indication next year. I suspect BB would have still featured heavily if RM was around. I reckon DMac would have been the one missing out.

RM isn;t some unknow quantity...he's got 50 caps...we've seen what he can do....i imagine it would have been very similar to what we saw before bb and RM rotating in and out with the add DMac because none of them quiiiieeett did enough to truly own the jersey...whenever they would have played the other one would have been the solution to their mistakes

@Nepia you might be right...but there are also only so many top tier coaching jobs out there and generally people want to keep their job

@Frank said in All Blacks 2026:

Heard from someone on this site that Beauden Barrett was continually preferred because the high ups wanted him picked due to marketability or some shit. (Ardie too). I am not sure if I can believe the process has become that corrupted. If it has, we're screwed.

ive faired variations of this for a while....at very least i think that the coaches get pressure to name players that have signed long contracts....so it seems like it was worth it...no business will want to pay big buck for someone to sit in the stands

@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2026:

@mohikamo said in Super Rugby 2026:

@Nepia

Super/NPC rugby is the only pro rugby i'll actually take the time to watch nawadays.
Although that game in Pretoria last night got my attention.
I still follow international rugby, but a lot of that is absolutely dire; extra disappointingly the very big games seem to be the most dire.
Still watch the locals tho; saw some cracking games from the amateurs last season; very entertaining.

As for the league v union thing.
A good game of union will shit all over a good game of league . . . BUT . . . you get a lot less good games of union, than you do of league.
League is a little more simple than union; and that seems to ensure that every game is going to be, at a minimum, a half-decent spectacle.
You cant say that about union, a lot of games can be complete shite.
At times a close score line is the only thing making it interesting.

Just on top of that, the guys I know who have played both legaue and union (I never played league) generally say that they actually prefer to play union.
Even the shite games of union can be fun, if you are actually playing.
But playing and spectating are lots different.

Not sure I agree with that, and especially not based on last years games. I nearly got banned from the league forum I'm on for not fawning over a game last year (I think I got a couple of shots on here too), I can't remember which one but I think it had a spectacular end but was average throughout. But I like both so honestly think they both have great games and they both have shit games. I'm a dirty both sideser,.

I was a forward in rugby and a back in league so two completely different experiences for me. Could do a lot more walking in league as the standard in the Bay wasn't that high.

I think im the exact opposite of @mohikamo (although i haven't watched a lot of league over the last couple of years)...but when i did watch league regularly i felt you more easily and more often got a game of league that was 5 tackle and kick....five tackles and kick....five tackles and kick....with a couple of moments of brilliance...and even a "bad" game of union wasn't that repeditive

i feel a blown gasket is more of a heart or lung issue....this is more like a broken axle

theyre saying 12 months so a blow to Otago too

in my mind we're definitely at the point where we're going to have to accept some short term pain for long term gain...and that might come in a variety of forms

like @antipodean said we might have to dilute the NZ teams...short term will see super games closer to NPC quality....but long term we'll expose more players to a professional comp, more teams will also mean we'll see teams with new hubs so they might be able to reignite a connection with local fans...more bumbs on seats is more cash in the door and makes the product look more popular in screen which will be more attractive to sponsors

currently it feels like we've just resigned ourselves to the idea the sponsorship money we currently get is it and we need to cut our cloth....a successful long team plan would be looking to grow that, how do you sell a product to a new sponsor....make it look popular...

yes, season ticket holder might have to accept a couple of home games a year arent at home....but a bit of spectacle will also attract sponsors and new fans...and if we can make the season longer its probably a net gain anyway

my preference was always to drop super and promote the "top" 10 NPC teams, they would effectively morph into something different but i liked the idea if keeping some connection to the historical unions...but accept as other have pointed out that wont happy for a variety of reasons and so the Unions will just have to exist as pure rep teams, maybe playing exhibition games against each other...maybe purely the ranfuly shield, holder accepts 8-10 challenges a year depending on who can muster a squad together or something wild

@African-Monkey said in Super Rugby 2026:

@sparky said in Super Rugby 2026:

@frugby said in Super Rugby 2026:

@Duluth said in Super Rugby 2026:

@frugby said in Super Rugby 2026:

I think there should be more teams and the larger ones should be broken up. There should be more opportunities for players to play close to their home.. that makes for a more tribal competition with more interest.

I find this quite fascinating. Have recently been in the UK, and the sheer density of population/football teams in London is incredible, and it goes back to your first point.

What's really impressive in England at the moment is some sides in the National League, Nation League North/South and the Isthmian League (the 5th, 6th and 7th tier) pulling in paying crowds of over 5000.

Take a bow supporters of Carlisle, Notts County, Oldham Athletic, York City, Southend United, Torquay United and Dulwich Hamlet

You live therw, would you say it's a flow on efect with so many locals being priced out of going to premier league games now?

i would say thats definitely a part....but the standard is also much better, when wimbledon came through the leagues we only went semi pro in championship south i think and didnt go full pro until promotion to the league (this was only 2010), now i believe theyre full pro right through the championship

@antipodean said in Super Rugby 2026:

@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2026:

@African-Monkey said in Super Rugby 2026:

@frugby said in Super Rugby 2026:

@Duluth said in Super Rugby 2026:

@frugby said in Super Rugby 2026:

I think there should be more teams and the larger ones should be broken up. There should be more opportunities for players to play close to their home.. that makes for a more tribal competition with more interest.

I find this quite fascinating. Have recently been in the UK, and the sheer density of population/football teams in London is incredible, and it goes back to your first point.

Why is it, that Auckland, a city of 1.5m, struggles to support two Super Rugby teams, given rugby is our national game?

Sydney is about 2x as big and they support 9 NRL teams.

Is it better to look at the population of rugby fans as opposed to actual population?

I think a ranking of average crowd size for the 14 NPC sides + the 5 Super Rugby sides would be interesting.

Auckland also has The Wahs and Auckland FC to compete with, and with a cost of living crisis, rugby is bring squeezed out by rival codes. Compare that with the population of the Canterbury region which is about 700,000 currently and growing and has ONE professinal sports team. Lets see how they cope once they eventually get a league team down the track. There's no competition currently in the South Island and the crowds down there are still pathetic most of the time.

Sydney is also not 2 times as big, it has a population of 5.5 mil.

Yep bang on AM, it's pretty different when you look Sydney has population of whole of NZ .
Problem is getting that 5.5 mill to stadiums involves a fair bit of travelling.
Brisbane las about double pop of Auckland doesn't it, and has one of each code , I think, with a couple of teams in surrounding cities? My main take is travel and of course w got a lot of people who these days quite enjoy the convenience of sitting on couches?

If you count the Goldy and Sunshine Coast (and you should) then Brisbane is over 3.5 million

And while there's been rationalisation in this millennium, if your region/ suburb had a NRL team, you had a stadium which was "reasonably" well serviced by public transport. Or certainly better than driving which is an act of self loathing.

Australia is also much more willing to waste taxpayer funds on infrastructure.

The other issue is while Australians generally support winners, my experience is there's a considerable discrepancy between codes when their team sucks. Rugby appears to be the worst- "fans" stop attending when their team sucks and are amazingly ignorant of the laws.

i remember being shocked when i first came over and their was a mid season mid table game between Richmond and Carlton...ie both having average to shit seasons and very little to play for....90k people

@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2026:

@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2026:

@nonpartizan said in Super Rugby 2026:

@canefan said in Super Rugby 2026:

@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby 2026:

@canefan its going back a couple of years, but when the Drua played here in Whangarei, the Drua fans were great, signing, dancing, was a great atmosphere, but NZ grounds seem to prefer to play shitty music and kept playing it over the top of the crowd creating that faux ambience.

Rugby has no idea how to provide a quality entertainment product, and that starts with the game on the pitch (I'm referring to test footy more than SR). The NH seem less discerning and more loyal, NZ crowds the opposite

Test rugby really is over officiated when all is said and done.

A lot of the NH refs seem to love the sound of their own voice and the constant stoppages rather than just letting the game flow. Murray mexted phrases it brilliantly, calls those refs litigious.

its true but "we" dont help, plenty of posts in game threads along the lines "how did the miss that" or calling for cards/penalties when we spot things we dont like

fans are the fucking worst and the last thing any fucking governing organisation should do is listen to them.

cant stand em

@nonpartizan said in Super Rugby 2026:

@canefan said in Super Rugby 2026:

@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby 2026:

@canefan its going back a couple of years, but when the Drua played here in Whangarei, the Drua fans were great, signing, dancing, was a great atmosphere, but NZ grounds seem to prefer to play shitty music and kept playing it over the top of the crowd creating that faux ambience.

Rugby has no idea how to provide a quality entertainment product, and that starts with the game on the pitch (I'm referring to test footy more than SR). The NH seem less discerning and more loyal, NZ crowds the opposite

Test rugby really is over officiated when all is said and done.

A lot of the NH refs seem to love the sound of their own voice and the constant stoppages rather than just letting the game flow. Murray mexted phrases it brilliantly, calls those refs litigious.

its true but "we" dont help, plenty of posts in game threads along the lines "how did the miss that" or calling for cards/penalties when we spot things we dont like

@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2026:

The atmosphere at rugby games in NZ fucking sucks too. That Eden Park Bledisloe sounded like a cricket game, lots of talking with the very occasional roar. What is the actual pull to go watch in person?

people seem to be a lot more vocal about the stuff they dont like than the stuff they do like, thats why i dont bother with the match day threads...theyre not enjoyable to read

my personal experience with football, an added aspect that sometimes helps when the game is shit is the wider comp, almost everyone is fighting for something, automatic promotion....or play offs...or relegation...even in afl you hear people start to talk about good draft picks if theyre having a shit season...rugby comps....are just a bit blah

@frugby i think its a mix of two things, cost of living obviously....but its just not, no longer?, the culture to go to games or even watch games "every" week like other countries, especially the more casuals fans, i found even people that had no idea what they were talking about..."had" an AFL team and were happy to go to the pub with people to watch a game if not hit up one or two games a year

@mariner4life said in Exodus:

i have said it before, and i will continue to say it again and again no matter how often the misty-eyed NPC tragics tell me i am wrong.

The problem is our season structure is completey fucked and no longer fit for purpose. Our 2nd tier of player have all their elite rugby finished by June for the year. They will no longer play with, or against, even NZs best players, for the next 7 months. 35 ABs will disappear to play 14 games (well, probably 8-10 will play some part in 3 or 4) every one else gets to kick rocks in park footy.

The rest of the world has their best players and their up and comers playing each other pretty much all year, with short international breaks.

Fuck, we even let some of our elite players piss off overseas.

Those who say the NPC is still essential sound exactly like the guys we laugh at for saying Aus rugby was best when they just had the Shute Shield so they should just go back to that.

1998 was a very, very long time ago.

agreed with almost every word, i think we still need the NPC whilst we only have 5 super teams with a season that ends so early, slightly larger and long super season and the NPC can drop back and be a full amateur rep comp