The Silver Fern

@mariner4life said in Black Caps tour of India:

@reprobate said in Black Caps tour of India:

@mariner4life said in Black Caps tour of India:

are you okay mate?

Yeah, I guess. I mean come on Mum, Kyle Mills? Really?

beggars cannot be choosers. The record of NZ ODI bowlers is appalling. I am not sure mentioning our 2nd all time wicket taker, who has one of the better averages for players who have taken 100 wickets is quite the outrage you seem to think it is. Especially when you factor in his peak world ranking.
Would i put him in? No, the top tier is pretty easy to select. But as a guy to talk about on, you know, a sports discussion forum, it's not that egregious.

For a Nation with our World Cup record, it is astounding how average our All Time XI is.

Oh agree we're largely shit. But he's totally a longevity pick. Chatfield is ahead of him on that list, and Danny Morrison not far behind, neither of whom would get a mention. Pringle, Allott, Henry all quite a bit better in my opinion. You'd also need to take into account that Mills was easily at his most effective opening the bowling - there's no way he can do that ahead of any of our good quicks.
He did a great job for us, and I probably shouldn't be so disrespectful, but in my defence I have long term scarring from our 120kph bowlers.

@mariner4life said in Black Caps tour of India:

are you okay mate?

Yeah, I guess. I mean come on Mum, Kyle Mills? Really?

@mariner4life said in Black Caps tour of India:

@Gunner said in Black Caps tour of India:

Guptill
McCullum (wk)
KW
Taylor
Crowe
Mitchell
Cairns
Vettori
Hadlee
Boult
Bond

my problem with this team is Vettori is not a good enough bat to be at 8. Cairns isn't really good enough at 7 either, especially with some pretty ordinary bowling figures.
This team is getting a hiding from nearly every other best of side.

Slot Kyle Mills in there and we'll be alright mate.

@mariner4life said in Black Caps tour of India:

Kyle was the world's number 1 ranked ODI bowler at one point wasn't he?

Yeah I think so. He's still a horrible line and length medium-at-best pacer.

@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of India:

@reprobate said in Black Caps tour of India:

Kyle Mills was bloody mediocre. Geoff Allott no mention and far superior.

The fuck ?

Most other Black Caps bowlers must be even worse.

Ah yep, that's correct.

and Bond having Ricky fucking Ponting as his bunny means he makes any team as first choice. inswing at 150kph, unreal.

Kyle Mills was bloody mediocre. Geoff Allott no mention and far superior.

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate

If you think pointing out the absurdity of an argument that Foster's ability to create a decent team environment & inspire loyalty somehow caused Robertson's downfall is defending Foster, then be my guest.

If you think that's what I said, you need to work on your reading comprehension. You are defending Foster when there has been no attack (other than on his shit results).
To be as clear as I can: the fault lies not with Foster but with NZR in that they handled the Foster process so badly that it is quite possible that players with loyalty to Foster would be pissed off with Robertson.

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2026:

Ok I got question for posters going forward this year. We have opinions on BB , Ardie etc being in team. If they are still picked by new coach, are you still going to get behind them, or are you perhaps going to admit that they should be there? Or are we smarter than even another AB coach? Remembering they pick players for how they want team to play, and with all the info on them, not from watching a bit on tv (with just a few angles) and occasional trip to a game. I will be interested to see responses from whatever players etc are picked.

'My eyes tell me they are playing shit, but the coach picked them so I guess they must be playing great'
yeah nah.

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

Yep, and you have to wonder whether player loyalty to Foster meant there was a bit of angst at him being treated badly, which easily translates into anti-Robertson feeling when things aren't going well. Combine that with factions within the team and shit can go south quick.

Yep. Foster def. to blame for Robertson's departure.......

Oh piss off mate. You're even going to come to his defence for imagined slights now?
Amazing Ian Foster 1 point loss with 14 men to best everest Boks!
Or in reality: worse coaching record than the guy who just got deservedly sacked.

Defence? Accused of that - and more - multiple times when I argued the problems weren't all down to Foster.

Remind us again how the magic solution of swapping the coaching team went.....

I think the more relevant reminders might be of the nature of the dreadful defeats and lack of improvement in obvious problem areas we suffered under Foster, rather than every 2nd time you mention him bringing up one game (which remember we actually lost) as if that were the appropriate measure. The equivalent would be someone harping on about Robertson actually defeating the Boks last year in one game - but nobody is doing that.
I agree with you - and so does just about everyone else - that there were problems beyond Foster. That doesn't make him any good. And it is quite reasonable to suggest that a shit removal process with a previous boss who you liked is going to influence your opinion on his replacement - especially given the circumstances. Nowhere did I suggest that was Foster's fault, but you leap to his defence like always?

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

Yep, and you have to wonder whether player loyalty to Foster meant there was a bit of angst at him being treated badly, which easily translates into anti-Robertson feeling when things aren't going well. Combine that with factions within the team and shit can go south quick.

Yep. Foster def. to blame for Robertson's departure.......

Oh piss off mate. You're even going to come to his defence for imagined slights now?
Amazing Ian Foster 1 point loss with 14 men to best everest Boks!
Or in reality: worse coaching record than the guy who just got deservedly sacked.

@Bones said in All Blacks 2026:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

Would probably make a good manager though.

Ironically, would seemingly be a great HR vibes guy.

Yep, and you have to wonder whether player loyalty to Foster meant there was a bit of angst at him being treated badly, which easily translates into anti-Robertson feeling when things aren't going well. Combine that with factions within the team and shit can go south quick.
Regardless of that, the right decision has been made this time - whereas last time it was a shit-show. You can't say you're firing someone then back down under player power, then neuter them by installing assistants. That's a recipe for disaster, for players getting too big for their boots. The stuff on a new coach choosing assistants is good, it makes plain where the buck stops. The crucial next step is making sure the players are in their box from now on.

@kev said in All Blacks 2026:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:

I'm not really a fan of BB as starter.

That’s a very nice way of putting it. As a starter he rarely challenges the line, shovels ball sideways. Cross kicks incessantly especially under advantage which is such an all or nothing play. But has uncanny ball skills and acceleration - plays his best rugby in the broken field situations you more often get at the end of a game.

... and at fullback, not 10.

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@westie_boy said in All Blacks 2026:

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2026:

@Tim

It was fascinating to hear Paul mention Joseph, Brown and Rennie together as a team, as it had already been hinted at by someone in this thread I think.

The discussions from Kirk about giving freedom to choose / select assistants was welcome, we might have some movement towards NZRU being a professional organization now that Robinson is finally fucked right off.

Paul also mentioned another name for possible coach, Ian Foster….

Doubt he'd be interested after the way he was treated.

Doubt we'd be interested after the way his teams underperformed.
Would probably make a good manager though.

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2026:

@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2026:

What difference does team Culture make if the results are the same? It is a professional sport now now a amateur leisure time pursuit.

Can you really imagine Robertson's AB's losing a RWC by one point with 14 players?

Yes. I can imagine them getting thrashed by SA at Twickenham in a lead up game, losing to France in pool play, pulling out a good enough game to beat an aging Ireland, and getting close to a team they went 1-1 with this year.
WCs aren't that good a measure, and Foster's ABs were shit.

@Chris said in All Blacks 2026:

This will not go down well But JJ is a fan of Ennor especially after the AB XV tour.

Good player, been very unlucky with injuries.
That's the funny thing eh, I don't think Robertson was biased - maybe in his first year he was guilty of going with what he knew. But the old guard picks included guys like BB, Christie, TJP, ALB. 2nd year he dropped Blackadder despite him being the best forward in Super finals, and Havili. He picked too many Chiefs if anything.
Lot of bad decisions sure, but mostly not due to provincial bias.

@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of India:

@Virgil said in Black Caps tour of India:

@reprobate said in Black Caps tour of India:

@Virgil said in Black Caps tour of India:

Work is quiet and 99.89% of the fern is focused on some high school All Black drama.....

thats our all time top ODI century scorers to date ( Fleming and Latham also have 8 x 100's)

I'd suggest those 5 pictured would make our all time ODI batting top 5?

Guptill
Astle
Williamson
Taylor
Mitchell

Thats if you're happy to leave out Turner and Crowe

With all due respect to Nathan Astle, he's not even close to those guys. Guptill too.

yeah nah have to hard disagree there.

Had a dig into Astles 100's
14 of them came in wins.

As mentioned the game was different in his time.
its not like he couldnt bat at an outrageous pace, still holds the test record for the fastest test double hundred after all.

Guptill had his issues, wasnt always consistent but not many ODI openers have an average over 40.00
he's a shoe in to open for me.

Yep, biggest one being test Cricket.

But ODIs ? absolutely walks in. Fantastic record.

Crowe vs Astle is a bloody tough one, there's room for both.....but then check Glenn Turners ODI average ESPECIALLY in that era ?!?!?! ( much smaller sample size counts against him )

McCullum keeps and bats seven then Vettori, Hadlee, Bond and Boult. Easy.

Astle and Mitch share 10 overs between them with the ball.

If we're in what-if world, Marty is the better bowler too bro.

I've gone from not caring about the next ABs game because the same old shit is going to get trotted out, to being excited again. Fuck yeah David Kirk.

@MN5 said in Black Caps tour of India:

@reprobate said in Black Caps tour of India:

@Virgil said in Black Caps tour of India:

Work is quiet and 99.89% of the fern is focused on some high school All Black drama.....

thats our all time top ODI century scorers to date ( Fleming and Latham also have 8 x 100's)

I'd suggest those 5 pictured would make our all time ODI batting top 5?

Guptill
Astle
Williamson
Taylor
Mitchell

Thats if you're happy to leave out Turner and Crowe

With all due respect to Nathan Astle, he's not even close to those guys. Guptill too.

Astle played in an era where mid 30s was a very good ODI average

Oh I've seen them play bro - admittedly Turner not so much. But Crowe vs Astle? pfft. Ask any bowler. I'd still say it's not even close even if it were an absolute road for every game guaranteed - they're just not in the same class at all.

@W32 said in All Blacks 2026:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2026:

@W32 said in All Blacks 2026:

Damn it. Sigh

any news over there on Tony Brown?

Just heard he's changed his name to Tony Black