All Blacks v Argentina I
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Good solid victory by ABs. We seem a bit overcoached in my view. Our backs do not seem instinctive in their decisions, and their timing is way out as a consequence. May partly be instructions for 9 and 10 to hold back stuff for bigger matches, but backline does not look like really clicking.
Vaai has a great motor and Newell went very well. And I thought Reece and Taukeiaho deserved their tries for their efforts.
I hope we can play more to other strengths than mauling and scrumming for penalties in next test. I hope Carter or Narawa gets a crack on the wing. -
@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Darth-Sader you need someone who can intimidate/persuade a ref in clutch moments.
Will Jordan ain’t that guy.
Intimidate? I’m not sure that’s what you want in a captain. I agree you need to be able to apply the right kind of influence, but that’s not all about brawn. We do need leaders in the forwards, and I believe Ardie offers that for the time being. I’d also like to see what Holland and Va’ai can do as a locking combo. I like Scooter as a player, but he reminds me a more visible Reuben Thorne as a captain.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Proctor or ALB - an underwhelming selection choice.
At least Proctor did a few good things tonight in amongst the poor things. The problem really lies around the fluidity of our backline. Right now it isn’t functioning which isn’t helping newbies like Proctor settle in to their role.
So clunky.
Proctor has a lot of upside. Stick with him. A yellow card on D is not the worst offence.
What upside, exactly?
Hands, distribution and stepping are much better than Reiko. His work rate is really good. Every player makes a few mistakes. That’s the nature of sport. I think he will grow into his role.
He's demonstrated nothing that his fluffers were banging on about when clamouring for him to be the All Black centre. What he has demonstrated is how much we relied on Rieko's defence.
Which goes back to my point that perhaps the problem wasn't Rieko; it was the coaching of the backline.
Except Riekos also been just as bad in Super Rugby for years.
So your argument is "ignore All Black form, it's SR that matters for Tests"?
Huh? You said maybe Rieko is only average at internationals because of the coaching?
I responded saying he's been performing just as poorly in SR. Unless you think it's the coaches fault in SR as well?
What's the common element in the All Black and Blues gameplan? Centres running tight lines getting the ball at much the same time as the defence.
Very few players look good in those circumstances.
We're clearly not coaching the talent we have to use the skills they demonstrate in lower levels.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Scott Barrett isn't good enough to be in the 23, yet he's the Captain.
Our forward pack is probably the best in the world, and is deciding the winners of these games, the backline is absolutely shit and is keeping the score closer than it should be.
Beauden is NOT a 10. He has a labored pass, and his first instinct is to kick the ball away for the 1/30 miracle bounce that he can then live off for the next 3 years.
Half the backline currently aren't in the top 3 in their position in the country.
Nah don't agree with that Scott Barrett had a very good shift today.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Proctor or ALB - an underwhelming selection choice.
At least Proctor did a few good things tonight in amongst the poor things. The problem really lies around the fluidity of our backline. Right now it isn’t functioning which isn’t helping newbies like Proctor settle in to their role.
So clunky.
Proctor has a lot of upside. Stick with him. A yellow card on D is not the worst offence.
What upside, exactly?
Hands, distribution and stepping are much better than Reiko. His work rate is really good. Every player makes a few mistakes. That’s the nature of sport. I think he will grow into his role.
He's demonstrated nothing that his fluffers were banging on about when clamouring for him to be the All Black centre. What he has demonstrated is how much we relied on Rieko's defence.
Which goes back to my point that perhaps the problem wasn't Rieko; it was the coaching of the backline.
Proctor will get better, the problem is most of our backline isn’t playing well and the fact we keep kicking the ball away baffles me.
The coaching of our backs is poor. Apart from Jordan every single back out there today made far too many errors. Not good enough.
It's not entirely on coaching. We simply don't have the talent in the backs - Ratima is clear second choice - Beauden is nearly 10 years past his prime - Jordie is a good player but has been clunky his entire career - Proctor looks ok but to be honest nothing special and both wingers lack speed and power
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@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@African-Monkey turn into a YC magnate
Didn't know he was that rich
In YCs he is....
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Our backline are nowhere as good as in years past. Apart from Roigard when he's fit, Jordie Barrett and Will Jordan, I don't see the same amount of world class backs right now. Beaudy is 8 years past his best.
Enough of Christie and ALB, I'd bring Preston and Tupaea on the bench.
Thought Jordan, Newell, Vaai, Taukeiaho and Holland were good.
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I think it’s a coaching issue. Jason Ryan has that pack humming, but there is something wrong with whatever Jason Holland is telling the backs - unless his instructions are ‘kick the ball away at every opportunity, pass behind people, play passively on kick receipts and don’t chase attacking kicks’. Yes, they have some issues with injuries at the moment, but one gets a sense they don’t really know what the game plan is. They are getting served up Cordon Bleu ball from the forwards, then like the incompetent waiter Manuel in Fawlty Towers, they are spilling it and breaking the best family crockery. And the fact that this keeps happening suggests to me it is about either poor communication issues, inept strategy, lousy and inconsistent selection or the players themselves not buying into what is being sold. Or perhaps all of the above.
Certainly, some of these players - like Ioane and ALB - look way past their use-by date. Others like Christie are desperation selections because of injury. As for Beauden Barrett, he does some good things and his goal kicking is excellent, but his ‘tactical’ kicking game is abysmal (and DMac’s isn’t much chop either). Indeed, my hunch with BB is he has been collision-shy for a while now after a couple of knocks and that may be influencing his now reflex decisions to kick to nowhere in particular for no reason whatsoever. But the argument that the older players are there for what they bring in ‘experience’ and big game nous is getting harder to swallow.
Incidentally, I’d be interested to know the back story of the falling out between Razor and Leon MacDonald, but the back-play has never gelled under the new regime and doesn’t look like changing.
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@Darth-Sader Martin Johnson didn’t need to lay a hand on a ref, but he had an intimidating presence. He had a look
McCaw intimidated refs with his knowledge of the game. They knew he was probably right when he questioned them.
Intimidating doesn’t need to mean physically violent. It means having a presence that refs will influence refs.
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@Darth-Sader Scooter is more visible than Thorne. He also doesn’t have a handle
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@His-Bobness if the defence wasn’t as porous, the AB backline attack wouldn’t be such an issue.
AB forwards are where the strength lies in this team, with some direct running in the backs from Jordie Barrett and Will Jordan with some magic.
It is like a role reversal from the early 2000s when the backs were electric and the forwards were crap
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@stodders I’m definitely not anti-Scooter. But I would like to see him compete for his spot, not just be handed it because he’s the captain.
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@Darth-Sader I think he’s here on merit still. Just.
And that is because he is lucky that Va’ai is playing so well at 6. If there was a better 6, then I think Va’ai and Holland would be the starting locks. As it is, Va’ai at 6 means the ABs have one of the best lineouts going with France and the Boks. Lofty company.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Proctor or ALB - an underwhelming selection choice.
At least Proctor did a few good things tonight in amongst the poor things. The problem really lies around the fluidity of our backline. Right now it isn’t functioning which isn’t helping newbies like Proctor settle in to their role.
So clunky.
Proctor has a lot of upside. Stick with him. A yellow card on D is not the worst offence.
What upside, exactly?
Hands, distribution and stepping are much better than Reiko. His work rate is really good. Every player makes a few mistakes. That’s the nature of sport. I think he will grow into his role.
He's demonstrated nothing that his fluffers were banging on about when clamouring for him to be the All Black centre. What he has demonstrated is how much we relied on Rieko's defence.
Which goes back to my point that perhaps the problem wasn't Rieko; it was the coaching of the backline.
Except Riekos also been just as bad in Super Rugby for years.
So your argument is "ignore All Black form, it's SR that matters for Tests"?
Huh? You said maybe Rieko is only average at internationals because of the coaching?
I responded saying he's been performing just as poorly in SR. Unless you think it's the coaches fault in SR as well?
What's the common element in the All Black and Blues gameplan? Centres running tight lines getting the ball at much the same time as the defence.
Very few players look good in those circumstances.
We're clearly not coaching the talent we have to use the skills they demonstrate in lower levels.
We really lack center depth when we are discussing going back to Rieko
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It would be interesting to see or hear what the game plan is around kicking.
