All Blacks v Argentina I
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I think it’s a coaching issue. Jason Ryan has that pack humming, but there is something wrong with whatever Jason Holland is telling the backs - unless his instructions are ‘kick the ball away at every opportunity, pass behind people, play passively on kick receipts and don’t chase attacking kicks’. Yes, they have some issues with injuries at the moment, but one gets a sense they don’t really know what the game plan is. They are getting served up Cordon Bleu ball from the forwards, then like the incompetent waiter Manuel in Fawlty Towers, they are spilling it and breaking the best family crockery. And the fact that this keeps happening suggests to me it is about either poor communication issues, inept strategy, lousy and inconsistent selection or the players themselves not buying into what is being sold. Or perhaps all of the above.
Certainly, some of these players - like Ioane and ALB - look way past their use-by date. Others like Christie are desperation selections because of injury. As for Beauden Barrett, he does some good things and his goal kicking is excellent, but his ‘tactical’ kicking game is abysmal (and DMac’s isn’t much chop either). Indeed, my hunch with BB is he has been collision-shy for a while now after a couple of knocks and that may be influencing his now reflex decisions to kick to nowhere in particular for no reason whatsoever. But the argument that the older players are there for what they bring in ‘experience’ and big game nous is getting harder to swallow.
Incidentally, I’d be interested to know the back story of the falling out between Razor and Leon MacDonald, but the back-play has never gelled under the new regime and doesn’t look like changing.
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@Darth-Sader Martin Johnson didn’t need to lay a hand on a ref, but he had an intimidating presence. He had a look
McCaw intimidated refs with his knowledge of the game. They knew he was probably right when he questioned them.
Intimidating doesn’t need to mean physically violent. It means having a presence that refs will influence refs.
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@Darth-Sader Scooter is more visible than Thorne. He also doesn’t have a handle
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@His-Bobness if the defence wasn’t as porous, the AB backline attack wouldn’t be such an issue.
AB forwards are where the strength lies in this team, with some direct running in the backs from Jordie Barrett and Will Jordan with some magic.
It is like a role reversal from the early 2000s when the backs were electric and the forwards were crap
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@stodders I’m definitely not anti-Scooter. But I would like to see him compete for his spot, not just be handed it because he’s the captain.
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@Darth-Sader I think he’s here on merit still. Just.
And that is because he is lucky that Va’ai is playing so well at 6. If there was a better 6, then I think Va’ai and Holland would be the starting locks. As it is, Va’ai at 6 means the ABs have one of the best lineouts going with France and the Boks. Lofty company.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Proctor or ALB - an underwhelming selection choice.
At least Proctor did a few good things tonight in amongst the poor things. The problem really lies around the fluidity of our backline. Right now it isn’t functioning which isn’t helping newbies like Proctor settle in to their role.
So clunky.
Proctor has a lot of upside. Stick with him. A yellow card on D is not the worst offence.
What upside, exactly?
Hands, distribution and stepping are much better than Reiko. His work rate is really good. Every player makes a few mistakes. That’s the nature of sport. I think he will grow into his role.
He's demonstrated nothing that his fluffers were banging on about when clamouring for him to be the All Black centre. What he has demonstrated is how much we relied on Rieko's defence.
Which goes back to my point that perhaps the problem wasn't Rieko; it was the coaching of the backline.
Except Riekos also been just as bad in Super Rugby for years.
So your argument is "ignore All Black form, it's SR that matters for Tests"?
Huh? You said maybe Rieko is only average at internationals because of the coaching?
I responded saying he's been performing just as poorly in SR. Unless you think it's the coaches fault in SR as well?
What's the common element in the All Black and Blues gameplan? Centres running tight lines getting the ball at much the same time as the defence.
Very few players look good in those circumstances.
We're clearly not coaching the talent we have to use the skills they demonstrate in lower levels.
We really lack center depth when we are discussing going back to Rieko
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It would be interesting to see or hear what the game plan is around kicking.
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@taniwharugby keep the opposition guessing. Only problem is, it keeps the ABs guessing too.
Offensive kicking was part of the triple threat Wayne Smith pushed for. It supposedly kept rush defences honest if executed well.
Chasing of kicks has been v poor for a while. No pressure. Pressure on kick offs has been v good though.
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@KiwiMurph for Reece? ABs seem to want to play with one big winger at least (Ioane or Clarke when fit).
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@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@stodders I’m definitely not anti-Scooter. But I would like to see him compete for his spot, not just be handed it because he’s the captain.
I thought he played pretty well and he's far from the biggest of our problems
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@KiwiMurph for Reece? ABs seem to want to play with one big winger at least (Ioane or Clarke when fit).
Rieko's size is adding very little these days. What are you really missing by switching?
In the short term I mean.
In the longer term yes as I suspect someone like Tangitau will come in as another winger with a bit of size and power.
ABs seem to want ALB as a bench option and that fails time and time again.....
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@stodders I’m definitely not anti-Scooter. But I would like to see him compete for his spot, not just be handed it because he’s the captain.
I thought he played pretty well and his far from from the biggest of our problems
He played ok. What concerns me is how the team is coming out of the shed after half time in yet another game. That was not the time to ease the foot off the throat, so the absolutely insipid, unfocused showing - remember they came back to within a try - is either on the coach/es for not resetting the team, or the captain for not driving that response on the field.
Admittedly, having now watched the Saffa v Aussie game, my criticism has softened a little…
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@kev said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
Take the win, flush the dunny and move on.
Newell, Savea, Jordan and Sami T were the pick of the ABs.
Holland was good too. Taylor is reliable as ever.
Christie and ALB were awful.
Beauden Barrett is rocks and diamonds. Proctor is unconvincing. And neither of the wings set the world alight.
Anyway, nice to be Number 1 in the World again. Long may that continue!
We have some issues:
Why do we kick the ball away when you have a penalty advantage?
We clearly had the wood in the forwards but didn’t use it until the last 20.
We have to work on our on our aerial game. Someone has to go up. Someone.
Caleb Clarke is good in the air.
Maybe we need to bring in another fullback/wing hybrid who can catch high balls but is still be a attacking threat. Maybe Jacob Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens is an option otherwise try Reuben Love on the wing. Can't be worse than Reece and Ioane. The other option is to hire Ben Smith or Corey Jane as a specialist high ball coach.
We also need a big hard running 8. We are asking too much of Savea making him do this role as well. It should be Hoskin Sotutu but I guess given the coaches issues Simon Parker, is the only option, move Ardie back to 7.
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Hard to know what to make of that, was actually a decent win, but the Razor ABs never look in complete control like we thought they would. I think what may annoy me the most is how much pressure the team puts on itself, so many times players just pass to players in worse positions.
Proctor is copping the same criticism that RI used to get when he got no or crap ball and no chances to unleash his outsides. Go figure. Meanwhile RI had to go into the pack to do pick and goes to get his hands on the ball in any situation other than a hospital pass.
Reece had his best game in black for a while, took two good tries and cut his error rate down from usual. Still shouldn't be there.
Ah well, got the points to kick off the RC on the right foot.
so let’s just give Proctor at a minimum the rest of the year to prove his worth in the 13 jersey .
