All Blacks v Argentina I
-
<Days later> This might belong in a grumpy old man-live match reporting thread, but it would be nice, in future, if occasionally people mentioned the score in the live match thread. For those not near the game, the tv, other media. Reading through the thread live it felt at times like the Pumas were leading by 2 tries plus...
-
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan DMac? He's played a whole season of Super rugby at 10. Sometimes not very well.
But, I kind of struggle to see Beaudy as clearly better. But, I'm prepared to be wrong!
I was talking about AB level. In the last 12 months DMac has been outduelled by Plummer (SR 24 final), BB (SR 25 QF) and Reihana (SR 25 F). Obviously it's not all on him. But he had a good NH tour which apparently doesn't count for much
> Annoyingly, the AB stats site has degenerated, so you can't readily find out who played in what in the past two seasons.
But, I think DMac helmed three losses and Beauden just one. Seems like BB is probably about 8/9 at present, so it's not too awful.
@Duluth runs the best site for finding out those sorts of things.
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan DMac? He's played a whole season of Super rugby at 10. Sometimes not very well.
But, I kind of struggle to see Beaudy as clearly better. But, I'm prepared to be wrong!
I was talking about AB level. In the last 12 months DMac has been outduelled by Plummer (SR 24 final), BB (SR 25 QF) and Reihana (SR 25 F). Obviously it's not all on him. But he had a good NH tour which apparently doesn't count for much
> Annoyingly, the AB stats site has degenerated, so you can't readily find out who played in what in the past two seasons.
But, I think DMac helmed three losses and Beauden just one. Seems like BB is probably about 8/9 at present, so it's not too awful.
@Duluth runs the best site for finding out those sorts of things.
Not for player info
rugbydatabase.co.nz is the best for seeing what games people played
rugbyhistory.co.nz is useful for a summary of what position people played in. Although it doesn't have the latest games.. they seem to update at the end of the year
Hopefully rugbydatabase adds player positions to their search results. They have all the info they just need to expose it
-
<Days later> This might belong in a grumpy old man-live match reporting thread, but it would be nice, in future, if occasionally people mentioned the score in the live match thread. For those not near the game, the tv, other media. Reading through the thread live it felt at times like the Pumas were leading by 2 tries plus...
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
<Days later> This might belong in a grumpy old man-live match reporting thread, but it would be nice, in future, if occasionally people mentioned the score in the live match thread. For those not near the game, the tv, other media. Reading through the thread live it felt at times like the Pumas were leading by 2 tries plus...
Coming to a forum near you https://www.forum.silverfern.rugby/topic/7503/volunteers-to-test-a-new-tsf-feature/15
-
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan DMac? He's played a whole season of Super rugby at 10. Sometimes not very well.
But, I kind of struggle to see Beaudy as clearly better. But, I'm prepared to be wrong!
I was talking about AB level. In the last 12 months DMac has been outduelled by Plummer (SR 24 final), BB (SR 25 QF) and Reihana (SR 25 F). Obviously it's not all on him. But he had a good NH tour which apparently doesn't count for much
> Annoyingly, the AB stats site has degenerated, so you can't readily find out who played in what in the past two seasons.
But, I think DMac helmed three losses and Beauden just one. Seems like BB is probably about 8/9 at present, so it's not too awful.
@Duluth runs the best site for finding out those sorts of things.
Not for player info
rugbydatabase.co.nz is the best for seeing what games people played
rugbyhistory.co.nz is useful for a summary of what position people played in. Although it doesn't have the latest games.. they seem to update at the end of the year
Hopefully rugbydatabase adds player positions to their search results. They have all the info they just need to expose it
@Duluth said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@canefan DMac? He's played a whole season of Super rugby at 10. Sometimes not very well.
But, I kind of struggle to see Beaudy as clearly better. But, I'm prepared to be wrong!
I was talking about AB level. In the last 12 months DMac has been outduelled by Plummer (SR 24 final), BB (SR 25 QF) and Reihana (SR 25 F). Obviously it's not all on him. But he had a good NH tour which apparently doesn't count for much
> Annoyingly, the AB stats site has degenerated, so you can't readily find out who played in what in the past two seasons.
But, I think DMac helmed three losses and Beauden just one. Seems like BB is probably about 8/9 at present, so it's not too awful.
@Duluth runs the best site for finding out those sorts of things.
Not for player info
rugbydatabase.co.nz is the best for seeing what games people played
rugbyhistory.co.nz is useful for a summary of what position people played in. Although it doesn't have the latest games.. they seem to update at the end of the year
Hopefully rugbydatabase adds player positions to their search results. They have all the info they just need to expose it
You have team sheets and the score, so better than most! I don't bother looking elsewhere nowadays
I'll check that link out next time though.
-
Scrum.com has full international history with lineups and action.
-
Low intensity first half rewatch with eye on why AB backs didn’t gel.
Some thoughts:
-
Didn’t do enough cycles up the guts before going wide. Instead of forcing defence to back pedal and thus be misaligned, Ratima went wide too soon, and Puma backs were generally well aligned and able to press effectively;
-
A number of times we seemed to try and go 10/12/13/outside. That’s too slow. Need some/more miss passes, say 10/13/14;
-
Jordie almost always received ball. I’d have thought that aided Pumas defensive read. See also 2.;
-
Proctor seemed at least half the time to be running a line only a couple of metres outside Jordie. Looked to me too congested. Didn’t seem to be used as a feint; and
-
Players coming in from wing seemed to be off on their timing.
Other observations:
A. Please stick to your wing Reece instead of seagulling around ruck and exposing flank defence;
B. EDG was excellent in scrums. I’d start him against Louw in Boks games; and
C. Ratima was OK. Kicking a notch below, e.g. White, but BB also culpable.
-
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Wurzel said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
It takes some effort to play in four All Blacks Test wins and never impose yourself on a game.
Took Vaa'i more than that, to be fair.
Due to injury Vaai had to start his 2nd test at lock in an Eden Park Bledisloe (after Wallabies drew test 1 the week before) as a 20 year old and he had a fine game - second test of the Foster era
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Wurzel said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
It takes some effort to play in four All Blacks Test wins and never impose yourself on a game.
Took Vaa'i more than that, to be fair.
Due to injury Vaai had to start his 2nd test at lock in an Eden Park Bledisloe (after Wallabies drew test 1 the week before) as a 20 year old and he had a fine game - second test of the Foster era
He was up and down thereafter though. Was a bit of penalty magnet off the bench. Not knocking because there was massive upside to him but it still took time to see what we did mid way through last year and continuing.
-
<Days later> This might belong in a grumpy old man-live match reporting thread, but it would be nice, in future, if occasionally people mentioned the score in the live match thread. For those not near the game, the tv, other media. Reading through the thread live it felt at times like the Pumas were leading by 2 tries plus...
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
<Days later> This might belong in a grumpy old man-live match reporting thread, but it would be nice, in future, if occasionally people mentioned the score in the live match thread. For those not near the game, the tv, other media. Reading through the thread live it felt at times like the Pumas were leading by 2 tries plus...
Why bother posting the score during the game when the main purpose of a match thread is waiting for the ‘told you so’ moments about certain players and telling all and sundry how crap someone is.
-
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
<Days later> This might belong in a grumpy old man-live match reporting thread, but it would be nice, in future, if occasionally people mentioned the score in the live match thread. For those not near the game, the tv, other media. Reading through the thread live it felt at times like the Pumas were leading by 2 tries plus...
Why bother posting the score during the game when the main purpose of a match thread is waiting for the ‘told you so’ moments about certain players and telling all and sundry how crap someone is.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
<Days later> This might belong in a grumpy old man-live match reporting thread, but it would be nice, in future, if occasionally people mentioned the score in the live match thread. For those not near the game, the tv, other media. Reading through the thread live it felt at times like the Pumas were leading by 2 tries plus...
Why bother posting the score during the game when the main purpose of a match thread is waiting for the ‘told you so’ moments about certain players and telling all and sundry how crap someone is.
Yeah, there was a lot of that too.
-
@Chris-B I'm not sure exactly what BB is giving the coaches that DMac wasn't. The last game he started we beat Ireland away,and he was close to man of the match wasn't he? Since then he's not played 10 at all that I can recall. So BB must be an amazing trainer....
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B I'm not sure exactly what BB is giving the coaches that DMac wasn't. The last game he started we beat Ireland away,and he was close to man of the match wasn't he? Since then he's not played 10 at all that I can recall. So BB must be an amazing trainer....
I understand you and a few of us aren't sure what Beaudy is giving coaches that DMac isn't cane, but funnily enough most of BB criticisms come on forums.
Almost all pundits , ex coaches and test players seem to be saying he doing great job. We all I think see differences, I think it too easy to say he must be a great trainer, he obviously controls game how they want.
I also wonder if at the moment we going back to thought we have a bloody good forward pack and they want our 10 to keep ball in front of them? -
Either the ex players and coaches are sticking up for one of their own, or they are seeing something we aren't. But until I see a more convincing performance I will remain sceptical
@canefan it is an interesting concept really.
I know back in the Henry days, early Hansen days, when they got results, people pretty much trusted thier decisions, cos results.
Now, and going back to late Hansen, all of Fozzie, people see these decisions and are questioning them , cos results.
It is interesting how others see the likes of Ardie and BB alot different to how many, particularly on here do, clearly there is something we are missing.
-
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Chris-B I'm not sure exactly what BB is giving the coaches that DMac wasn't. The last game he started we beat Ireland away,and he was close to man of the match wasn't he? Since then he's not played 10 at all that I can recall. So BB must be an amazing trainer....
I understand you and a few of us aren't sure what Beaudy is giving coaches that DMac isn't cane, but funnily enough most of BB criticisms come on forums.
Almost all pundits , ex coaches and test players seem to be saying he doing great job. We all I think see differences, I think it too easy to say he must be a great trainer, he obviously controls game how they want.
I also wonder if at the moment we going back to thought we have a bloody good forward pack and they want our 10 to keep ball in front of them?@Dan54 how do they justify the 10 giving away possession through ineffective kicking
-
@Dan54 how do they justify the 10 giving away possession through ineffective kicking
@BerniesCorner It's not part of the Instagram posts, which is what most people seem to be watching.
-
The criticism of BB here is both valid and a bit over the top. A lot of the criticism centres around the chip kicks, but as I've said a few times on here, that's a team wide gameplan. Beauden does it most as he's at 10, but DMac does it, Jordan did it last weekend, many others have as well. It's 100% gameplan to keep the rush defense guessing. Not sure I agree with it, but it's not a Beauden problem.
The main issue I see with him is the distance on his clearances, but the coaches obviously see his upsides as outweighing that negative. If we have Roigard starting at 9 then that negates that issue somewhat.
Because outside of the kicking from hand, Beauden has been fucking excellent overall and created a lot. People really overlook some of the outstanding work he does to create tries, and focus on a chip kick gone wrong instead.
-
The French 10 praised BB. I imagine coaches and opposition see unpredictability while some of us on here see hospital passes and shitty kicking. Or at least, pebbles and rhinestones.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
The French 10 praised BB. I imagine coaches and opposition see unpredictability while some of us on here see hospital passes and shitty kicking. Or at least, pebbles and rhinestones.
Much of it is so unpredictable that no one except the kicker seems to be aware the kick is coming. And the chance of recovery drops because the chase is either poor or non existent
-
The criticism of BB here is both valid and a bit over the top. A lot of the criticism centres around the chip kicks, but as I've said a few times on here, that's a team wide gameplan. Beauden does it most as he's at 10, but DMac does it, Jordan did it last weekend, many others have as well. It's 100% gameplan to keep the rush defense guessing. Not sure I agree with it, but it's not a Beauden problem.
The main issue I see with him is the distance on his clearances, but the coaches obviously see his upsides as outweighing that negative. If we have Roigard starting at 9 then that negates that issue somewhat.
Because outside of the kicking from hand, Beauden has been fucking excellent overall and created a lot. People really overlook some of the outstanding work he does to create tries, and focus on a chip kick gone wrong instead.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
The criticism of BB here is both valid and a bit over the top. A lot of the criticism centres around the chip kicks, but as I've said a few times on here, that's a team wide gameplan. Beauden does it most as he's at 10, but DMac does it, Jordan did it last weekend, many others have as well. It's 100% gameplan to keep the rush defense guessing. Not sure I agree with it, but it's not a Beauden problem.
The main issue I see with him is the distance on his clearances, but the coaches obviously see his upsides as outweighing that negative. If we have Roigard starting at 9 then that negates that issue somewhat.
Because outside of the kicking from hand, Beauden has been fucking excellent overall and created a lot. People really overlook some of the outstanding work he does to create tries, and focus on a chip kick gone wrong instead.
The Pumas showed how it’s done.
-
@Dan54 how do they justify the 10 giving away possession through ineffective kicking
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Dan54 how do they justify the 10 giving away possession through ineffective kicking
I don't ask them, I don't even really have an opinion. All I was saying that it seems pundits and coaches seem to think he best option.
I just guessing they see something some of us don't. -
The criticism of BB here is both valid and a bit over the top. A lot of the criticism centres around the chip kicks, but as I've said a few times on here, that's a team wide gameplan. Beauden does it most as he's at 10, but DMac does it, Jordan did it last weekend, many others have as well. It's 100% gameplan to keep the rush defense guessing. Not sure I agree with it, but it's not a Beauden problem.
The main issue I see with him is the distance on his clearances, but the coaches obviously see his upsides as outweighing that negative. If we have Roigard starting at 9 then that negates that issue somewhat.
Because outside of the kicking from hand, Beauden has been fucking excellent overall and created a lot. People really overlook some of the outstanding work he does to create tries, and focus on a chip kick gone wrong instead.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
The criticism of BB here is both valid and a bit over the top. A lot of the criticism centres around the chip kicks, but as I've said a few times on here, that's a team wide gameplan. Beauden does it most as he's at 10, but DMac does it, Jordan did it last weekend, many others have as well. It's 100% gameplan to keep the rush defense guessing. Not sure I agree with it, but it's not a Beauden problem.
The main issue I see with him is the distance on his clearances, but the coaches obviously see his upsides as outweighing that negative. If we have Roigard starting at 9 then that negates that issue somewhat.
Because outside of the kicking from hand, Beauden has been fucking excellent overall and created a lot. People really overlook some of the outstanding work he does to create tries, and focus on a chip kick gone wrong instead.
Unfortuantly NQ, when a lot make a decision on how they feel about a player, they see exactly what suits their prejudice or whatever it is. If a player who they against does 14 good things in game and four bad , the 4 bad is what is pounced on.
This is not just a BB thing or this site, but I have seen on most sites , poster will remember a cock up or bad game a player (or refs etc) had quite sometime ago to boldter argument. I think it human nature?
