All Blacks - New Coach Selection
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@Frank said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The consensus seems to be Joseph has the job merely because he coached NZ A.
But player mamangement is so important.
Rennie is far superior in this respect.In what way? Can you give us examples, I am quite interested to know. I have never heard of either being bad player management.
Even why Joseph would get gig just because he did NZ A? -
@pukunui said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Does anyone recall what happened with the 2013 Highlanders? Looking at the squad it was pretty stacked but IIRC that season was a bit of a disaster. Coincidentally that was one of the seasons Rennie’s Chiefs were killing it with a lesser squad (on paper at least).
Chiefs were average in 2013? Hika Elliot , Ben Tamiafuna and Ben Aefaki ,Brodie Retallick, Sam Cane, Liam Messam, Kerrr Barlow and Cruden just a few ABs I can recall. And to top it off Wayne Smith as assistant coach? Then Smith left and so did Chiefs titles.
Rennie a good coach obviously, but at that stage Chiefs recruitment men made a good fist of change of rules regarding players from having to be from your own area. How the bastards got Cruden from the Canes!Botoom line a couple of good coaches, and whoever get's the job should get support of any AB supporter, and not the constant nitpicking if it not our favourite.
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They could pick Rennie, they could pick Joseph - and they are both good picks with their own strengths and weaknesses.
The idea that Jamie Joseph is bad at player management, look at the Highlanders recruitment with and without Joseph.
I’m not suggesting he is better or worse than Rennie, but players definitely want to play for him.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@pukunui said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Does anyone recall what happened with the 2013 Highlanders? Looking at the squad it was pretty stacked but IIRC that season was a bit of a disaster. Coincidentally that was one of the seasons Rennie’s Chiefs were killing it with a lesser squad (on paper at least).
Too many egos in one room.
Players ? Coaches ? Or both?
There was a pretty solid core of successful senior ABs there. A bit strange that they weren’t able to pull it together.I genuinely don’t know what happened there by the way. So not suggesting anyone was to blame. But interested to hear what the actual situation was.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@pukunui said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Does anyone recall what happened with the 2013 Highlanders? Looking at the squad it was pretty stacked but IIRC that season was a bit of a disaster. Coincidentally that was one of the seasons Rennie’s Chiefs were killing it with a lesser squad (on paper at least).
Chiefs were average in 2013? Hika Elliot , Ben Tamiafuna and Ben Aefaki ,Brodie Retallick, Sam Cane, Liam Messam, Kerrr Barlow and Cruden just a few ABs I can recall. And to top it off Wayne Smith as assistant coach? Then Smith left and so did Chiefs titles.
Rennie a good coach obviously, but at that stage Chiefs recruitment men made a good fist of change of rules regarding players from having to be from your own area. How the bastards got Cruden from the Canes!Botoom line a couple of good coaches, and whoever get's the job should get support of any AB supporter, and not the constant nitpicking if it not our favourite.
Most of those guys were fairly early in their careers at that stage. Compare that to Andrew Hore, Ma’a Nonu, Brad Thorn, Tony Woodcock, Aaron Smith, Ben Smith, Colin Slade, Hosea gear, Lima Sopoaga.
So yeah, easily better on paper with plenty of guys from out of the area.
Regardless, I am more interested in why the Highlanders weren’t able to make it work with all those ABs (possibly the most stacked team JJ has ever coached) rather than what Rennie was able to do. But it is an interesting comparison.Agree with the last bit and would be great to get both in some form.
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@pukunui My recollection is Thorn was injured and barely got on the field, while Woodcock and Nonu phoned it in all season or got red-carded, then suspended.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@pukunui My recollection is Thorn was injured and barely got on the field, while Woodcock and Nonu phoned it in all season or got red-carded, then suspended.
Yep but as pukunui rightly says either coach would have strengths. and I genuinely like both. Know former players coached be both (different players with each coach) and only heard good things about both!
Just look at the squads in 2015 when Highlanders won the comp. Funnily enough, thats the year Highlanders shouldn't have probably got near the Chiefs, and they whipped them 3 times didn't they? Lol I only half remember, because I got family in Chiefs country and I was busy telling them how the Canes would whip them (they did twice) and when we lost to Highlanders I explained to me brothers well they were couldn't get near a NZ team starting with 'H'. -
@pukunui said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Does anyone recall what happened with the 2013 Highlanders? Looking at the squad it was pretty stacked but IIRC that season was a bit of a disaster. Coincidentally that was one of the seasons Rennie’s Chiefs were killing it with a lesser squad (on paper at least).
i feel thats cherry picking a bit...you could also point to almost every other year of his tenure and say there was steady improvement ending in a title and looked like he learnt a lot from the season he tried to buy the title
@Frank said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The consensus seems to be Joseph has the job merely because he coached NZ A.
But player mamangement is so important.
Rennie is far superior in this respect.and thats simplifying things quite a bit, a successful NA campaign with positive review form players is important but also has good hinstory in the nz domestic scene plus overseas experience....its not like he was the only one available for NZA and fluked his way into it
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@Richie8-7 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
I thought everyone agreed that it was all Nonu's fault when a Super team he moved to didn't perform
Nonu tended to save his awesomeness for the biggest stage, a bit like Frank Bunce before him.
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@mohikamo said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
I think its more interesting we now have Mealamu and Coles involved
Too many hookers now.
I'm thinking it might be as simple as being the senior recent AB player who is local (to HQ)?Yeah, compared with the rest of the panel he's someone with (relatively) recent experience of a professional rugby environment and what it takes to succeed.
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@Richie8-7 said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
I thought everyone agreed that it was all Nonu's fault when a Super team he moved to didn't perform
it wasn't just the team didnt perform....nonu was bang average, played like someone they knew they would still get picked for the AB's so could take it easy
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@pukunui said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
Does anyone recall what happened with the 2013 Highlanders? Looking at the squad it was pretty stacked but IIRC that season was a bit of a disaster. Coincidentally that was one of the seasons Rennie’s Chiefs were killing it with a lesser squad (on paper at least).
i feel thats cherry picking a bit...you could also point to almost every other year of his tenure and say there was steady improvement ending in a title and looked like he learnt a lot from the season he tried to buy the title
@Frank said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
The consensus seems to be Joseph has the job merely because he coached NZ A.
But player mamangement is so important.
Rennie is far superior in this respect.and thats simplifying things quite a bit, a successful NA campaign with positive review form players is important but also has good hinstory in the nz domestic scene plus overseas experience....its not like he was the only one available for NZA and fluked his way into it
Again, im not trying to create some narrative that JJ isn’t up to it. Genuinely interested to hear whether there was ever details about why that season wasn’t a success even with those players in the squad.
The bit about Rennie doing well with the chiefs that year was more of an afterthought when i realised that was one of the years he won it. -
@pukunui there are a few people on here that might have an actual inside word on that season...but just watching as a fan i always thought nonu looked like he didn't give a fuck and the guys around him asumed he was going to win things on his own so werent trying as hard as they normally would
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CBF'd reading the last 10 pages. Someone bring me up to speed. Who's the new coach and his assistants?
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@antipodean said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
CBF'd reading the last 10 pages. Someone bring me up to speed. Who's the new coach and his assistants?
Brad Thorn
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
@antipodean said in All Blacks - New Coach Selection:
CBF'd reading the last 10 pages. Someone bring me up to speed. Who's the new coach and his assistants?
Brad Thorn
Excellent. His loose forwards hit rucks.
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Any updates or rumours from anyone on announcement timings?
